Osas and apostasy

Hillsage

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First off you say I am not "rightly dividing the truth" with the two verses I quoted and interpreted, but did not say why it is not truthful?
You need to read my post 19
I read post 19. I feel there's a whole lot of your opinion but way too little scripture in support of it. And I found nothing refuting my belief concerning what little 'piece quoting' of scripture you did have. In going back to my post 17, I just believe I see more scriptural support for my POV than I see for your POV.
 
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bling

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I read post 19. I feel there's a whole lot of your opinion but way too little scripture in support of it. And I found nothing refuting my belief concerning what little 'piece quoting' of scripture you did have. In going back to my post 17, I just believe I see more scriptural support for my POV than I see for your POV.
I did not spend the time and words needed to define Godly type Love, since Books have been written on it (you can certainly read CS Lewis “Four Loves” to start with). Godly type Love can be found in 1 Cor. 13, 1 John 4 and really everything Christ said and did.

Do you see man’s objective, given in God’s commands with the greatest and second greatest being Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and energy and Love your neighbor as yourself (Christ added as He Loved them)? Do you see all other commands subordinate to these commands?

Here are some scripture to support the idea of falling away:

2 CORINTHIANS 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates?

MATTHEW 7:13-14

13. Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it.

It is not God's will that we sin but if we do we have an advocate with the father *1 JOHN 2:1-4

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.



COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23

[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....

[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations



2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:

[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.



REVELATION 3:5

He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.

These scriptures say you can fall away, but if you have not been lifted up how can you fall, you cannot fall if you are already down?

Your name would have to be in the book to be blotted out.

Paul is not writing to non-Christians.
 
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Sam91

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I disagree that we can't be snatched out of His hand means that those who fall away were never in Him.

Nothing can snatch a person out of His hand except the individual choosing to jump. It is heretical to say that someone can keep on wilfully sinning and be in Him. Those who maintain that our sins can't separate us from Him because our sinfulness did not prevent God's grace towards us are wrong. Jesus said to sin no more, 1 John 1 explains sin and our position to God plainly.
 
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d taylor

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There is one and only one way God imparts the grace of salvation upon someone... and that is when they believe and confess Christ. That's it. There is no good deed you could ever do that would add anything to that. (Not to say good deeds don't have their place but that's another discussion).

Believe and confess. You're in. Dis-believe and deny and you're out.

The Bible states that eternal life (salvation) is given by believing that Jesus is the promised Messiah from Old Testament prophecies and when a person realizes that they then can look, believe, trust, have faith in The Promised Messiah for His gift of His eternal life. And that person is given The Messiahs eternal life, never to lose the gift of life.

That one time act of belief can not be undone.

What is not part of receiving the gift of eternal life is confessing.
John 12 show that many believed but would not confess.

Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
 
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Guojing

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I disagree that we can't be snatched out of His hand means that those who fall away were never in Him.

Nothing can snatch a person out of His hand except the individual choosing to jump. It is heretical to say that someone can keep on wilfully sinning and be in Him. Those who maintain that our sins can't separate us from Him because our sinfulness did not prevent God's grace towards us are wrong. Jesus said to sin no more, 1 John 1 explains sin and our position to God plainly.

The problem with this common thinking is that, all of us believe that a non believer cannot jump out of Satan's grip by merely avoiding doing bad deeds, or if he keeps doing good deeds.

So, if we say that a believer can "jump" out of God's hand by sinning, we are saying that Adam's act of disobedience is far more powerful than Jesus's act of obedience.

Romans 5:12-19 will not make sense if you believe the above.
 
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Hillsage

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I did not spend the time and words needed to define Godly type Love, since Books have been written on it (you can certainly read CS Lewis “Four Loves” to start with). Godly type Love can be found in 1 Cor. 13, 1 John 4 and really everything Christ said and did.

Do you see man’s objective, given in God’s commands with the greatest and second greatest being Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and energy and Love your neighbor as yourself (Christ added as He Loved them)? Do you see all other commands subordinate to these commands?

Here are some scripture to support the idea of falling away:

2 CORINTHIANS 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates?

MATTHEW 7:13-14

13. Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it.

It is not God's will that we sin but if we do we have an advocate with the father *1 JOHN 2:1-4

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.



COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23

[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....

[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations



2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:

[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.



REVELATION 3:5

He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.

These scriptures say you can fall away, but if you have not been lifted up how can you fall, you cannot fall if you are already down?

Your name would have to be in the book to be blotted out.

Paul is not writing to non-Christians.
You just don't get where I'm coming from. Your post shares no insight at all concerning the salvation of the triune man. Your scriptures only prove what I've already said; The soul can walk three steps forward and it can backslide. You have no understanding of the difference between 'You IN Christ' and the eternal safety of that salvation for your spirit, versus the scriptures which are in regard to "Christ IN you" working on the salvation of your soul in the 'hope' of a more glorified SAVED body in the hereafter.

COL 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

2CO 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? -- unless indeed you fail to meet the test!



Your born again spirit is rebirthed as the holy spirit of Christ in you and you can't kill that spirit or loose it. If and when it does depart your body dies.

JAM 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Your theology has no concept of where I'm coming from and I'm seeing no benefit in dialoguing with you any longer.
 
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Dave L

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There is one and only one way God imparts the grace of salvation upon someone... and that is when they believe and confess Christ. That's it. There is no good deed you could ever do that would add anything to that. (Not to say good deeds don't have their place but that's another discussion).

Conversely, there is no bad deed you could ever do that would take salvation away. Since it hinges on belief and confession, bad deeds do not erase God's grace. (Not to say that bad deeds don't have their place, but that's yet another discussion).

Believe and confess. You're in. Dis-believe and deny and you're out.

Now, the Bible seems to be at odds with itself on the subject. There are verses that say once His God will never let us go, yet there are also passages that clearly say there are those who will taste God's grace and turn away. And that stickler of 'they were never with us' of those who do. The basic arguments are, can one fall out of a tree they never climbed into, and if one climbs that tree and falls out of it, were they really ever in the tree to begin with?

Most people play one set of verses against the other, thus the endless debate. Me, I think how can these opposites be really both true?

Which brings us to another thread's question of time travel. I believe God has access to all of time, all of the time (yet another discussion). I also believe that God's knowing everything that's going to happen, doesn't mean He causes those things to happen. So, He watches Joe go to church and come to believe, and God writes Joe's name in the book of life. Joe after many years backslides, falling deeper and deeper into sin. No matter how deep Joe sinks he's still saved - until that point satan puts him in a position of having to confirm his faith. Joe then abandons belief and denies Christ.

God then goes back in 'our time' and erases Joe's name from the Book, making to be as if it were never there from the beginning.

Time goes on and eventually we'll meet our maker and the Book will be opened. Joe's name won't be there, just as if it never was. But clearly, in our time line at least, it was at one point there.

OK, Peter denied Christ. 3 times to be exact. But he never stopped believing in Him. That's part of the equation. Joe stopped believing. That's the difference between backsliding and apostasy. One is not walking the walk. The other is denying there IS a Walk.
This is pure legalism and not salvation by grace in the least.
 
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renniks

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may seem that I am turning this thread toward another direction, but it is related. If believers can truly apostatize, then God is not at all sovereign over our lives, and further our redemption.
This is because you misunderstand what sovereignty means. It does not mean total control. If I am sovereign over my children, it doesn't mean I control their actions. It means I can choose how to react to their decisions, and I have the ultimate authority. If God wanted a world where he would control everyone totally, he have created that world and not giving us a choice to sin
 
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bling

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The problem with this common thinking is that, all of us believe that a non believer cannot jump out of Satan's grip by merely avoiding doing bad deeds, or if he keeps doing good deeds.

So, if we say that a believer can "jump" out of God's hand by sinning, we are saying that Adam's act of disobedience is far more powerful than Jesus's act of obedience.

Romans 5:12-19 will not make sense if you believe the above.
Who do you blame for being a servant to sin, a soldier in satan’s army, and sinning in general? Does satan make the person sinners, does God make people sinners, or does the person sinning of his own free will make him a sinner?

Does being a slave mean you have been turned into a robot, controlled by your master?

Ro. 5:12 says: “…death came to all people, because all sinned” and does not say death came to all people because Adam sinned.

Death and sin did become necessary because Adam could not complete his earthly objective without sinning and death being a reality, so it became a help to all others in their fulfilling their earthly objective.

The Christian does not jump out of God’s hand by just sinning, but the Christian has to knowingly give up his birthright to heaven, not wanting to go to heaven since there is only Godly type Love in heaven.

The nonbelieving sinner does not do: honorable, worthy of something, righteous and glorious acts, but can for purely selfish reasons (non-righteous reason) be willing to just accept pure undeserved unconditional charity from his enemy God. He is like the prodigal son who returned home for selfish reasons just willing to humbly accept his father’s undeserved charity. The nonbelieving sinner is still in the hand of satan a soldier of satan when he surrenders, since he is not joining God at that point.
 
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Hillsage

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Those who ‘know not’ the depths of triune man do not understand the difference between ‘relationship’ and ‘fellowship’. Giving up your birthright does not change your born again ‘relationship’ with Father God. I can get a legal emancipation from my parents but they are still my mother and father by birth. Your ‘relationship’ to your Heavenly Father is established with the birth of your spirit, not by the ‘fellowship’ of your soul.
 
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lismore

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Time goes on and eventually we'll meet our maker and the Book will be opened. Joe's name won't be there, just as if it never was. But clearly, in our time line at least, it was at one point there.

Perhaps this individual was never saved in the first place but made a false profession. God Bless :)
 
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Guojing

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Who do you blame for being a servant to sin, a soldier in satan’s army, and sinning in general? Does satan make the person sinners, does God make people sinners, or does the person sinning of his own free will make him a sinner?

Does being a slave mean you have been turned into a robot, controlled by your master?

Ro. 5:12 says: “…death came to all people, because all sinned” and does not say death came to all people because Adam sinned.

Death and sin did become necessary because Adam could not complete his earthly objective without sinning and death being a reality, so it became a help to all others in their fulfilling their earthly objective.

The Christian does not jump out of God’s hand by just sinning, but the Christian has to knowingly give up his birthright to heaven, not wanting to go to heaven since there is only Godly type Love in heaven.

The nonbelieving sinner does not do: honorable, worthy of something, righteous and glorious acts, but can for purely selfish reasons (non-righteous reason) be willing to just accept pure undeserved unconditional charity from his enemy God. He is like the prodigal son who returned home for selfish reasons just willing to humbly accept his father’s undeserved charity. The nonbelieving sinner is still in the hand of satan a soldier of satan when he surrenders, since he is not joining God at that point.

In romans 5:12, sin is a noun and not a verb.

once you accept this, that verse will take on a totally different meaning
 
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Yahkov

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I went to a Bible college that was heavily Calvinist. Everything they taught seemed to be structured around a vital doctrine: predestination. With their view on predestination, they have to believe mankind does not have free will, they have to believe in once saved always saved, and they have to believe in limited atonement. But there was a major hole I saw in their theology: God's foreknowledge. Those whom God foreknew, He predestined. This is where I find harmony with mankind having free will, Jesus dying for the whole world, Christians who fall away and lose Salvation, and predestination. God knows already, and He knew from the very beginning.

Even lawyers can make mistakes (John Calvin). With that being said, this is what I see in Scripture:

Is Salvation unconditional?
  • “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” - John 3:17-18
First, we can be confident that God did not send Christ into the world to condemn the world, just like it is pointed out in John.
  • “This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” - 1 Timothy 2:3-4
From 1 Timothy, we see that indeed, God didn’t send Christ into the world to condemn the world, but rather to save the world. God desires all to be saved. The verse doesn't read, "For God so loved the saints..." No, God so loved the world. Whoever said limited atonement? Surely not the Bible.

Going back to John, we start to realize that there is a condition. That condition is entirely rested upon faith in Christ. If we believe in Christ, we are not condemned, and if we do not believe in Christ, we stand condemned already. This is the sole condition that we see Salvation is offered in Scripture.

So if we can see there is a condition with the offering of the free gift of Salvation and we know the condition of which Salvation is offered, we should ask ourselves, is it possible to lose faith? There are several verses in Scripture we can look at to prove that, yes, we can fall away from faith resulting in a loss of Salvation.
  • “And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.” - Colossians 1:21-23
Examining this passage, we can clearly see that Paul is undoubtedly speaking of a Christian. You were once alienated and hostile in mind (fun fact: repentance in the Greek is defined as a change in mind), he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death (sounds very much so like a Christian). All this in order that he may be presented holy and blameless (definitely Christian). But once again we see the condition: if they continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the Gospel.
  • “Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.” - Hebrews 3:12-14
Here we see it again, brothers are being addressed. They are warned to take care lest there be an evil, unbelieving heart, leading them to fall away from the living God. They are encouraged to exhort one another so that they may not become hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Again, we can be confident the author is addressing Christians because he acknowledges they are on track to share in Christ. But here comes the kicker, but this time we see the author now including himself and not just referring to the audience: if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

We have now seen the condition for Salvation and we have seen the encouragement that as long as we hold onto faith in Christ, we can be sure God will deliver His promise of Salvation.

Now we should look at Paul, who several times emphasizes keeping the faith, and what he says closer to his death.
  • “For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.” - 2 Timothy 4:6-8
Paul states he has fought the good fight, he has finished the race, and he has kept the faith. Paul even states that henceforth, there is a crown of righteousness laid up for him which will be awarded to him on that day. Very harmonious with the previous verses shared.

Coming to faith in Christ is not the whole story, but rather the beginning. We must fight, we must finish, and we must keep faith.
  • “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie-behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.’” - Revelation 3:8-11
In this letter from the Lord to the church in Philadelphia, we see harmony with which Paul has just spoken in 2 Timothy. They have kept His word about patient endurance and have not denied His name. Still they are encouraged to hold fast to what they have, this way no one may seize their crown.

We can continue with a list of verses from Scripture that constantly emphasize keeping the faith and enduring to the end.
  • “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” - Matthew 24:9-14
We see from here that Jesus warns us that many will fall away. We can see from this passage the circumstances that lead to such a falling. Jesus also gives His promise as done all throughout the entire Bible, the one who endures until the end will be saved. Yet again, the condition.
  • “Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you-unless you believed in vain.” - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Again, Christians are being addressed. They are reminded of the Gospel in which they stand, the Gospel by which they are being saved if they hold fast to the word Paul has preached to them. If not, their belief was in vain, as in their belief was for nothing.
  • “But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.” - Hebrews 10:32-36
Even more, these are brothers in Christ being addressed. After they were enlightened they endured suffering. They knew that they themselves had a better possession and an abiding one. Yet they are still reminded to not throw away their confidence which has a great reward. They still must endure so that when they do the will of God they may receive what is promised.
  • “Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.” - 2 John 1:8
Yet another warning to watch themselves, so that they do not lose what they have worked for but will win a full reward.

It cannot be emphasized enough how we must endure and fight. There is a race we must run and we must run this race until the end and we can be assured, God will deliver His promise of Salvation. So now that we know we ought to fight, we must prepare ourselves for the fight, equipping the armor of God.
  • “Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.” - Ephesians 6:11-20
Our fight is with the devil, and he wants to rip faith right out of us. He wants to show us the pleasures of the world, a “heaven on earth” so to speak. We must fight against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers, and spiritual forces. God is indeed for us and has given us armor to do so. We need to obey Him and follow His lead, His word. And in fighting, we must realize that there are others out there who are in need of saving. If God desires all to be saved, we ought to as well.

For some this may seem very scary, but we should be encouraged by truth.
  • “What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?” - Romans 8:31
God desires all to come to faith in Christ. God will indeed help us. We must fight and He will help us fight. Furthermore...
  • “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” - Romans 8:38-39
We must stand in faith lest we fall. And always remember, God’s love remains in Christ Jesus our Lord and nothing is going to change that. This love is offered and was sent to the whole world.
  • "I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron...” - Isaiah 45:2
 
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bling

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In romans 5:12, sin is a noun and not a verb.

once you accept this, that verse will take on a totally different meaning
I was really addressing only the second part "for all have sinned, with have sinned, being a verb.
The other two times "sin" is used: In “just as sin entered” and “death through sin” have sin being a noun.
 
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Guojing

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I was really addressing only the second part "for all have sinned, with have sinned, being a verb.
The other two times "sin" is used: In “just as sin entered” and “death through sin” have sin being a noun.

How did you conclude that it was a verb there?
 
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Sam91

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I went to a Bible college that was heavily Calvinist. Everything they taught seemed to be structured around a vital doctrine: predestination. With their view on predestination, they have to believe mankind does not have free will, they have to believe in once saved always saved, and they have to believe in limited atonement. But there was a major hole I saw in their theology: God's foreknowledge. Those whom God foreknew, He predestined. This is where I find harmony with mankind having free will, Jesus dying for the whole world, Christians who fall away and lose Salvation, and predestination. God knows already, and He knew from the very beginning.

Even lawyers can make mistakes (John Calvin). With that being said, this is what I see in Scripture:

Is Salvation unconditional?
  • “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” - John 3:17-18
First, we can be confident that God did not send Christ into the world to condemn the world, just like it is pointed out in John.
  • “This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” - 1 Timothy 2:3-4
From 1 Timothy, we see that indeed, God didn’t send Christ into the world to condemn the world, but rather to save the world. God desires all to be saved. The verse doesn't read, "For God so loved the saints..." No, God so loved the world. Whoever said limited atonement? Surely not the Bible.

Going back to John, we start to realize that there is a condition. That condition is entirely rested upon faith in Christ. If we believe in Christ, we are not condemned, and if we do not believe in Christ, we stand condemned already. This is the sole condition that we see Salvation is offered in Scripture.

So if we can see there is a condition with the offering of the free gift of Salvation and we know the condition of which Salvation is offered, we should ask ourselves, is it possible to lose faith? There are several verses in Scripture we can look at to prove that, yes, we can fall away from faith resulting in a loss of Salvation.
  • “And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.” - Colossians 1:21-23
Examining this passage, we can clearly see that Paul is undoubtedly speaking of a Christian. You were once alienated and hostile in mind (fun fact: repentance in the Greek is defined as a change in mind), he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death (sounds very much so like a Christian). All this in order that he may be presented holy and blameless (definitely Christian). But once again we see the condition: if they continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the Gospel.
  • “Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.” - Hebrews 3:12-14
Here we see it again, brothers are being addressed. They are warned to take care lest there be an evil, unbelieving heart, leading them to fall away from the living God. They are encouraged to exhort one another so that they may not become hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Again, we can be confident the author is addressing Christians because he acknowledges they are on track to share in Christ. But here comes the kicker, but this time we see the author now including himself and not just referring to the audience: if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

We have now seen the condition for Salvation and we have seen the encouragement that as long as we hold onto faith in Christ, we can be sure God will deliver His promise of Salvation.

Now we should look at Paul, who several times emphasizes keeping the faith, and what he says closer to his death.
  • “For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.” - 2 Timothy 4:6-8
Paul states he has fought the good fight, he has finished the race, and he has kept the faith. Paul even states that henceforth, there is a crown of righteousness laid up for him which will be awarded to him on that day. Very harmonious with the previous verses shared.

Coming to faith in Christ is not the whole story, but rather the beginning. We must fight, we must finish, and we must keep faith.
  • “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie-behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.’” - Revelation 3:8-11
In this letter from the Lord to the church in Philadelphia, we see harmony with which Paul has just spoken in 2 Timothy. They have kept His word about patient endurance and have not denied His name. Still they are encouraged to hold fast to what they have, this way no one may seize their crown.

We can continue with a list of verses from Scripture that constantly emphasize keeping the faith and enduring to the end.
  • “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” - Matthew 24:9-14
We see from here that Jesus warns us that many will fall away. We can see from this passage the circumstances that lead to such a falling. Jesus also gives His promise as done all throughout the entire Bible, the one who endures until the end will be saved. Yet again, the condition.
  • “Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you-unless you believed in vain.” - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Again, Christians are being addressed. They are reminded of the Gospel in which they stand, the Gospel by which they are being saved if they hold fast to the word Paul has preached to them. If not, their belief was in vain, as in their belief was for nothing.
  • “But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.” - Hebrews 10:32-36
Even more, these are brothers in Christ being addressed. After they were enlightened they endured suffering. They knew that they themselves had a better possession and an abiding one. Yet they are still reminded to not throw away their confidence which has a great reward. They still must endure so that when they do the will of God they may receive what is promised.
  • “Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.” - 2 John 1:8
Yet another warning to watch themselves, so that they do not lose what they have worked for but will win a full reward.

It cannot be emphasized enough how we must endure and fight. There is a race we must run and we must run this race until the end and we can be assured, God will deliver His promise of Salvation. So now that we know we ought to fight, we must prepare ourselves for the fight, equipping the armor of God.
  • “Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.” - Ephesians 6:11-20
Our fight is with the devil, and he wants to rip faith right out of us. He wants to show us the pleasures of the world, a “heaven on earth” so to speak. We must fight against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers, and spiritual forces. God is indeed for us and has given us armor to do so. We need to obey Him and follow His lead, His word. And in fighting, we must realize that there are others out there who are in need of saving. If God desires all to be saved, we ought to as well.

For some this may seem very scary, but we should be encouraged by truth.
  • “What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?” - Romans 8:31
God desires all to come to faith in Christ. God will indeed help us. We must fight and He will help us fight. Furthermore...
  • “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” - Romans 8:38-39
We must stand in faith lest we fall. And always remember, God’s love remains in Christ Jesus our Lord and nothing is going to change that. This love is offered and was sent to the whole world.
  • "I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron...” - Isaiah 45:2
Praise be to God for the words He has given you! An excellent and comprehensible post, well done.
 
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Yahkov

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Praise be to God for the words He has given you! An excellent and comprehensible post, well done.

Praise be to God indeed! I was afraid this would be too lengthy but thought necessary to share. Thank you for the encouragement!
 
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Those who ‘know not’ the depths of triune man do not understand the difference between ‘relationship’ and ‘fellowship’. Giving up your birthright does not change your born again ‘relationship’ with Father God. I can get a legal emancipation from my parents but they are still my mother and father by birth. Your ‘relationship’ to your Heavenly Father is established with the birth of your spirit, not by the ‘fellowship’ of your soul.
Amen to that.

Luke 15:3-7
Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
 
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