Osas and apostasy

[Saint Steven]

Hillsage, ARMENIAN is a nationality, ARMINIAN is a theological position. My friend Gary was both - an Armenian Arminian.

Right. No one ever talks about starving Calvinists. - lol

 

[BCsenior]

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;” 2 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice how Paul includes himself as being capable of denying Christ
which will result in Christ denying him before The Father.

I wouldn't get too carried away with how Paul states things!
Foist of oil, he very tactfully mixes his dire warnings in amongst
his many and copious edifications, exhortations, encouragements, etc.

But, to your point, check this example out ... Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul."

Paul has NO idea who amongst his buddies (including himself)
might some day draw back (fall away)!

IF the Holy Spirit told him this,
it would have been an excellent idea to tell us about it.
Then, he wouldn't have guys like me making fun of him.

 

[BCsenior]

This concept of salvation of spirit and soul on separate planes is very foreign to me.
I have never heard of this before. I must admit I am skeptical
because I don’t understand how the spirit can be saved if the soul is not.

Don't sweat it ... he has lots of weird ideas!

 

[BCsenior]

Whoever is trusting Jesus has eternal life.
WHoever is not trusting Jesus has not eternal life.

Gee, this is so comforting ... even if it has NO Scriptures to prove it.
How about facing the dozens of NT verses which threaten loss of salvation!
Yes, I realize that ignoring/rejecting them is much more comforting!
Looks like you're choosing the easy road, or should I say "the broad road"?

 

[BCsenior]

God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Will He revoke the gift of salvation? (nope)
Romans 11:
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake;
but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Are you saying God's gift of grace is irrevocable also?
Then, what happened to these guys? ...

"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law;
you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4)
All of these guys had God's grace ... but, no more!
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." (Hebrews 10:39)

 

[BCsenior]

I don't see this dialogue going anywhere
based upon you not understanding OSAS for the spirit.

I warned you not to waste your time.

 

[BCsenior]

Hillsage, ARMENIAN is a nationality, ARMINIAN is a theological position.
My friend Gary was both - an Armenian Arminian.

My old friend, Tateos, Director of the "Jesus" film project in Bulgaria, is both also!

 

[Saint Steven]

Are you saying God's gift of grace is irrevocable also?
Then, what happened to these guys? ...

"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law;
you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4)
All of these guys had God's grace ... but, no more!
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." (Hebrews 10:39)

You would write them off that easily?
The Apostle goes on to call them "brothers and sisters" in verses 11 and 13.
No more grace, you say?

I don't believe that we can by an act of our own free will, undo what only God can do in the first place.

 

[BCsenior]

You would write them off that easily?
The Apostle goes on to call them "brothers and sisters" in verses 11 and 13.
No more grace, you say?

I've already warned you to NOT take all of Paul's words too seriously.

 

[Saint Steven]

I've already warned you to NOT take all of Paul's words too seriously.

Right. Like when he told the Galatians they had "fallen from grace".
I agree, we shouldn't take that seriously. - lol

 

[BCsenior]

Right. Like when he told the Galatians they had "fallen from grace".
I agree, we shouldn't take that seriously. - lol

I said ALL.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I wouldn't get too carried away with how Paul states things!
Foist of oil, he very tactfully mixes his dire warnings in amongst
his many and copious edifications, exhortations, encouragements, etc.

But, to your point, check this example out ... Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul."

Paul has NO idea who amongst his buddies (including himself)
might some day draw back (fall away)!

IF the Holy Spirit told him this,
it would have been an excellent idea to tell us about it.
Then, he wouldn't have guys like me making fun of him.

It is not certain that Paul was the author of Hebrews. It is possible that he could’ve been but there’s no way of knowing for sure. In every other epistle of Paul he introduces himself as the author in the greeting of each letter. I will say that it does appear to be his style of writing. To me Hebrews 10:39 appears to be words of encouragement, like a teacher saying to her students “now children we all know that fighting is bad, and people who fight get in big trouble, but we don’t hit each other do we because we know this”. I don’t think Hebrews 10:39 was intended to be a statement of fact but instead a statement of encouragement.

 

[Hillsage]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but you seem to be saying that Enoch died?

No, you're not misunderstanding me. You are misunderstanding 'the bible' if you think he didn't die. That's what the scriptures I quoted said; "these ALL died" and Enoch was in that group. It was a long post, and probably too long to even grasp, with a once over read, which is assaulting a long held 'indoctrinated opinion'. But you know me, those are the kind of things I've studied 'a lot' before jumping ship on what I too had been spoon fed to believe forever .

I read your explanations, but it seems the whole point when comparing the few scriptures we have is that he did NOT die. Hebrews says he was "translated", Genesis says "he was no more". (NIV)

Yes scripture does say "translated" and "he was no more", and I dealt with both of those which agree with "these ALL died"....Enoch being in that group.

Where's the news? The scriptures are definitely making some sort of statement about his departure. To say that it only means "he died" seems unlikely. Am I missing something here?

Yes, I think you missed what I said. He died like all of us hope to die....in our sleep...peacefully....like my mom died. Not going out with prescriptions out the wazoo and health issues which have robbed us from "life and life abundantly". That's where I'm at anyway.

 

[Hillsage]

Hillsage, ARMENIAN is a nationality, ARMINIAN is a theological position. My friend Gary was both - an Armenian Arminian.

Oh my stars. I’ve been spelling it wrong for decades and no one ever called me on it before. I guess you’re never to old to learn something new. I just hope I’m not too old to remember it now.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Gee, this is so comforting ... even if it has NO Scriptures to prove it.
How about facing the dozens of NT verses which threaten loss of salvation!
Yes, I realize that ignoring/rejecting them is much more comforting!
Looks like you're choosing the easy road, or should I say "the broad road"?

???
Maybe I should not reply to you ....

If you don't recognize Scripture, claiming MY QUOTE OF SCRIPTURE has NO Scriptures to prove it!

 

[Tra Phull]

Too old to remember WHAT, Hillsage?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Too old to remember WHAT, Hillsage?

Breakfast, LOL just kidding

 

[Tra Phull]

I am old also...

Uh... what were we discussing?

 

[Hillsage]

Too old to remember WHAT, Hillsage?

I said; "Do you know what the first sign of short term memory loss is?"....."Do you know what the first sign of short term memory loss is?"................."Do you know what the first sign of short term memory loss is?" This is funnier....in person....after you say 'NO' each time.