(Orthodox) Retirement?

[AMM]

What should our perspective be on things like retirement? I've thought about this for years in light of Luke 12:19-20 (or Matthew 6:19), and I just did some quick research to confirm my suspicions that retirement is a relatively new phenomenon. It really didn't originate until the Industrial Age and the late 1800s. So what should we do, as Orthodox Christians? Do the saints and fathers speak about this issue at all?

 

[ArmyMatt]

depends on what you do in retirement.

 

[All4Christ]

Are you asking if we should or should not retire?

I’d say that retiring gives you an opportunity to focus more on the important parts of life - God Himself and family. I don’t think it is wrong to retire.

Of course, like Fr Matt said, it depends on what you do as well.

 

[bèlla]

I don't agree with it for myself. I prefer income generating activities and business pursuits. But I wouldn't impress that belief on someone else. It comes down to your goals too. I'm focused on purpose and legacy. Retirement is not an option.

 

[peregrinus2017]

Labor was an important ascesis for the desert fathers that they continued to perform throughout their lives in whatever way they were able. Though I suppose you could say that they retired from the labors of the world to take up the labors of the spirit. Whatever you do, do to the glory of God.

 

[AMM]

Are you asking if we should or should not retire?

I’d say that retiring gives you an opportunity to focus more on the important parts of life - God Himself and family. I don’t think it is wrong to retire.

Of course, like Fr Matt said, it depends on what you do as well.

I guess that's what I'm asking. Or maybe I'm asking if we should set aside money for retirement. I'm not really sure what my concisely worded question is

Labor was an important ascesis for the desert fathers that they continued to perform throughout their lives in whatever way they were able. Though I suppose you could say that they retired from the labors of the world to take up the labors of the spirit. Whatever you do, do to the glory of God.

Sure, but when they "retired" to the desert, that's a little different from saving up 10x your salary so that you can stop working and play golf when you turn 65. Like just looking at this site for some rough numbers, it's advocating for saving 20% of your income every year in order to have enough to retire. That just seems to rub me the wrong way, considering that that's double what a tithe is (now I know as Orthodox Christians we're not commanded to give a tithe, but to give freely and cheerfully what we are able to, there's no law on the number -- and that's not what this thread is about. But many people (myself included) use 10% as a starting point or a guideline.)

 

[All4Christ]

I guess that's what I'm asking. Or maybe I'm asking if we should set aside money for retirement. I'm not really sure what my concisely worded question is


Sure, but when they "retired" to the desert, that's a little different from saving up 10x your salary so that you can stop working and play golf when you turn 65. Like just looking at this site for some rough numbers, it's advocating for saving 20% of your income every year in order to have enough to retire. That just seems to rub me the wrong way, considering that that's double what a tithe is (now I know as Orthodox Christians we're not commanded to give a tithe, but to give freely and cheerfully what we are able to, there's no law on the number -- and that's not what this thread is about. But many people (myself included) use 10% as a starting point or a guideline.)

As is the case with most things, I think it depends on your intentions and purposes. The same thing can be said about work, both in secular and religious work. Why are you doing the work? What is your attitude? What is your end goal? This even applies for someone in the clergy. Are they clergy to serve God and to shepherd those God entrusted to them? Or are they there to feel pious and proud that they are better than others? In the secular world, is someone working in a way to praise God with what they do? Is it a way to help their families? To help the church and those around them? Or is it to have the money to do everything they want without taking into account God? When someone saves for retirement, are they saving enough to live responsibly (by planning and carefully using that money), give to the Church and others, take care of the family and most importantly to seek after God? Or are they doing it for their own gain?

 

[peregrinus2017]

If this is primarily about financial security for the future, I would still look to the desert fathers and the writings of other early church fathers on wealth and its use. The most obvious off the top of my head is St. John Crysostoms on wealth and poverty. I don't think you'll find too much that addresses the idea of retirement directly, but there is plenty on how we should think about and use what God has given us.

 

[AMM]

As is the case with most things, I think it depends on your intentions and purposes. The same thing can be said about work, both in secular and religious work. Why are you doing the work? What is your attitude? What is your end goal? This even applies for someone in the clergy. Are they clergy to serve God and to shepherd those God entrusted to them? Or are they there to feel pious and proud that they are better than others? In the secular world, is someone working in a way to praise God with what they do? Is it a way to help their families? To help the church and those around them? Or is it to have the money to do everything they want without taking into account God? When someone saves for retirement, are they saving enough to live responsibly (by planning and carefully using that money), give to the Church and others, take care of the family and most importantly to seek after God? Or are they doing it for their own gain?

Hm, those are good points. I'll think about that. I guess this does apply to most if not all situations - it's both about what you do and why you do it

If this is primarily about financial security for the future, I would still look to the desert fathers and the writings of other early church fathers on wealth and its use. The most obvious off the top of my head is St. John Crysostoms on wealth and poverty. I don't think you'll find too much that addresses the idea of retirement directly, but there is plenty on how we should think about and use what God has given us.

I need to read that Chrysostom text. I've been meaning to read it for probably 2+ years but just haven't gotten around to it. Is it long or short?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Here’re Gurney’s words on retirement—-at age 55 I’ll be at 32 years teaching. DONE!! Over, out, see ya!!

 

[peregrinus2017]

I need to read that Chrysostom text. I've been meaning to read it for probably 2+ years but just haven't gotten around to it. Is it long or short?

Nothing is short for me, as I tend to read everything slowly. The popular patristics edition is I think about 130 pages. It is a collection of sermons, so it's not like it needs to be read in one go. To be honest, I have not read the whole thing. It is impossible to make time for all the reading I would like to do.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Do we need to save for retirement? Uh...YEAH!!!!

I guess that's what I'm asking. Or maybe I'm asking if we should set aside money for retirement. I'm not really sure what my concisely worded question is


Sure, but when they "retired" to the desert, that's a little different from saving up 10x your salary so that you can stop working and play golf when you turn 65. Like just looking at this site for some rough numbers, it's advocating for saving 20% of your income every year in order to have enough to retire. That just seems to rub me the wrong way, considering that that's double what a tithe is (now I know as Orthodox Christians we're not commanded to give a tithe, but to give freely and cheerfully what we are able to, there's no law on the number -- and that's not what this thread is about. But many people (myself included) use 10% as a starting point or a guideline.)

 

[Mary of Bethany]

As someone who just retired . . .

I look at it as a change in jobs. I always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom and have a big family, but things didn’t work out that way and I’ve been working full time for 45 years, except for a 2 year break when our first child was born. I’ve been praying to be able to retire for at least 10 years but didn’t see a way that I could, financially. But after my sister died this past year, and having a melanoma removed, I knew it was time. My husband actually seems happier with me at home and now I spend my days taking care of things here instead of being in an office all day. It also allows me to be at more services and it’s easier to take time for prayer and scripture reading each day.

It just seems like a better way for me.

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

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[AMM]

Saint Joachim and Anna did this. One third of their money went to the needy, one third went to the church and one third to take care of themselves and they were actually rich in those days.

That’s quite interesting. Do you have a source for that?

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

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[Lady Donna Marie]

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[buzuxi02]

What should our perspective be on things like retirement? I've thought about this for years in light of Luke 12:19-20 (or Matthew 6:19), and I just did some quick research to confirm my suspicions that retirement is a relatively new phenomenon. It really didn't originate until the Industrial Age and the late 1800s. So what should we do, as Orthodox Christians? Do the saints and fathers speak about this issue at all?

Your pretty much right that retirement is a new phenomenon. You pretty much worked till you died to feed and clothe yourself and if you could not it was obligated your kids took care of you till death. In other words work till death was the good option as most people dont want to become a burden on their kids and worse what if they had no extended family if they became incapacitated.

It's pretty clear from scripture that retirement is not the norm. Genesis 3:17-19 makes that brutally clear. I'm not going to complain and will continue to hope I can retire someday as a healthy person. But probably the entire system which allows for retirement such as 401k retirement plans and investments and savings maybe a false sense of security based on our fiat monetary system which will come crashing down someday.

 

[Lady Donna Marie]

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[AMM]

I would love to be able to work just part time. The only thing that worries me is the medical system in America - everything is so expensive and I have a chronic health condition. Fortunately I haven’t had to go to the doctor much recently but that could change in an instant and I wouldn’t want to be stuck without Heath insurance (which you don’t get with only part time work, usually)

But being able to work part time so that I have the ability to spend more time in church, learning iconography, just reading, etc - that would be nice