Orthodox Q & A

[Judson]

The elders should be taken symbolically, and not to mean 24 actual people. 24 is 12+12, probably referring to the 12 tribes and the 12 apostles. The number 12X12 or 12+12 occurs many times in the Revelation.

The saints could simply mean we who are here on earth.

Even if they did include the prayers of those in heaven, my question remains: how can they hear and pray for each one who asks them unless they are omniscient/omnipresent?

 

[Christos Anesti]

The elders should be taken symbolically

I agree that the number 12 should be taken symbolically. It does show people in heaven who obtain the prayers of the saints and offer them to God though. I'm not sure the exact manner in which it is made possible but it is possible.

We also know that they can hear our prayers because through such prayers miracles are often wrought. Our hagiography is filled with instances in which people implore the prayers of the saints and obtain their request. Not only did the Church author the Bible through the inspiration of the Spirit it also has teachings that are passed down orally and form part of our tradition too. The Holy Spirit has guided the Church and still does.

 

[Lukaris]

Our understanding of the saints praying in Revelaion is those on earth and in the heavens so this would be the prayers of all the saints mentioned in Revelation 8:3. While sola scripura view may argue this point, prior to the book of Revelation our traditional understanding of this existed and was attested to in the book of Enoch (written over a century prior to Christ and testifies of Christ) which states in 39:4,"There I saw another vision; I saw the habitations and couches of the saints. There my eyes beheld their habitations with the angels, and their couches with the holy ones. They were entreating, supplicating, and praying for the sons of men..." The idea of the habitations is attested to by the Lord in John 14:2 and this concept of the prayers of the saints is confirmed in Revelation 8:3 since this is an example of holy tradition within the context of scripture and sometimes outside of the canon of scripture but what is handed down is nonetheless attested to. For the Ethiopian Oriental Orthodox Church this example could even sola scriptura since the book of Enoch is in their Old Testament but not in the Eastern Orthodox canon. This tradition was clearly transmitted and understood prior to the compilation of scripture.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

So, it seems there is a sense in which you see the saints as performing a mediatorial work on your behalf?

If so, doesn't this challenge the truth that Christ alone is our mediator?

My whole problem is that prayers to saints seem to suggest that Christ needs "help" to accomplish things for us.

Hi, Judson.

Don't confuse mediation with intercession. The God-Man Jesus Christ is our only Mediator, because only He could accomplish our Salvation. But there are many intercessors - most importantly the Theotokos and the Saints who have finished the race and are in the presence of God. And also the saints on earth. We all pray for each other through Jesus Christ. Just as the Holy Trinity is a relationship of love among the 3 Persons, so is our relationship with all the Saints/saints one of love, which, as shown in Scripture, includes praying for one another.

Mary

 

[choirfiend]

Not to sound contentious, but how does one know that Mary is listening? Does she listen to all prayers?

How does the she answer the prayers?

Why do you not ask the Father directly?

I highly suggest you read the following to help get an organized answer to these questions:

Prayer and the Departed Saints

Facing Up to Mary

 

[choirfiend]

When I ask a friend to pray for me, I say, "Can you pray for me that ...."

Is this what the orthodox say? I always heard that you say things like "Mary, save us" or "St Anne have mercy on me" or something like that.

When you pray to saints, it seems you literally speak to them like they are God, like they have the ability to bless you directly, don't you?

No! All good things come from God and His grace. If God hears the prayers of Christians and answers them, though, we sure are lucky to have the Christians of the last 2000 years praying for us when we ask them to.


Here's a few examples of Orthodox prayers out of Orthodox prayer books:

A PRAYER TO YOUR PATRON SAINT
O saint of God, (the name of the saint), pray to God for me, for my home and my family. Amen. Pray to God for me, O saint (the name of the saint), well-pleasing to God, for I readily recommend myself to you, who are the speedy helper and intercessor for my soul. Amen.



A PRAYER TO YOUR GUARDIAN ANGEL
O Angel of Christ, holy guardian and protector of my soul and body, forgive me everything wherein I have offended thee every day of my life, and protect me from all influence and temptation of the evil one. May I nevermore anger God by any sin. Pray for me to the Lord, that He may make me worthy of the grace of the All-holy Trinity, and of the Most Blessed Theotokos, and of all the Saints. Amen.

 

[choirfiend]

My main question would be, then, how do you know they hear you? Are they not finite? How do they hear the prayers of millions of believers, and how do they have time to make a supplication for each person? They are not omniscient or omnipresent - how can I be confident that they are listening? (I know this sounds rationalistic, but this is my struggle).

Because man on earth is still bound by earthly things. The saints in Heaven are in the very presence of God.

You can be confident they are listening because they are Christians! God is omnipotent and He can accomplish anything. We do not cease prayer when we die. Do not forget Lazarus and the rich man. Even with the rich man in hades, he was concerned with those on earth. Christians are part of one Body, in Christ. You can be confident because they are in Christ! And, yes, they are in Christ in a way that we are not yet, still being on earth--and we will all be in Christ in new bodies in a new way after the final judgment.

 

[buzuxi02]

In order to understand this prayer of the saints, one must understand the offering of incense and its meaning. In Luke, John the Baptist's father went into the altar to offer the prayers of those that stood outside the temple. This custom was known as the "hour of incense". Anotherwords Zacharias offered the prayers of all the people that stood outside, through him. The people outside symbolize the earthly saints (me and you), the high priest who is inside the temple represent those closest to God (the 12x12 referenced above)) . The prayers of the multitudes outside the temple is directed thru Zacharias thru the burning of incense(see Lk 1.8-10)

How is this possible? Because God allows it. Lets see how this is explained in Rev 8.3,

"Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense that he should offer it, with the prayers of ALL the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense with the prayers of the saints ascended before God from the angels hand."

It says the angel was given much incense, God gives it, it pleases God. it is the prayers of all the saints. God knows to direct what to whom.

So yes this is very biblical. But we dont practise it because its biblical, but because it has always been the praxis of the church.