Orthodox- is there a name for this branch of theology?

ArmyMatt

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Unless I misunderstand and wrongly limit soteriology, I don't think that's it. I thought it was concerned with doctrines of salvation only. Though MAYBE in Orthodoxy that is different from what I was taught before? Maybe more all inclusive?

It makes SENSE that soteriology would include more that just "man fell and needed saving" from that end of human history. But would a study of Orthodox soteriology include things like why God created things, how God interacted with Satan and why as a result of the angelic revolt and human fall, etc?

If you have a moment, maybe you could glance at the post I linked to. It's long though. But those are the kinds of things I'm trying to incorporate. Did Satan have any right to demand anything of God as a result of man's fall and for the purpose of our salvation, and were God's hands essentially tied in any effort to simply do/undo effects or power structures - I disagree with almost everything the person wrote along these lines - he seems to think God's authority hinges on some set of intellectual points rather than the fact that He is the almighty Creator, uncreated and of unknowable Essence, etc.

I'm interested most especially in how we would reply, and how we know what we know. Again, not really in time for that post, but I've been wanting to get more carefully and deeply into these things - whatever we do teach - and don't want to misrepresent.

I'm more familiar within Orthodoxy that God is the Creator, man fell and thus became like a sickness, death was the result of separation from God the source of life, God desires to heal us of the effects of sin, Christ destroyed death, and we are to become partakers of the divine nature.

I don't know where any authority of Satan and requirements upon God and such things fit in, or where they can. Is it just too different?

no, Satan has no rights and God has no requirements. His hands were never tied to do anything. but I will say, soteriology is tied in to our creation since that is what we are created for. man was created to contain the uncontainable God, and God would have become man even if he never fell. and of course, the Fall affected all of that.
 
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~Anastasia~

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no, Satan has no rights and God has no requirements. His hands were never tied to do anything. but I will say, soteriology is tied in to our creation since that is what we are created for. man was created to contain the uncontainable God, and God would have become man even if he never fell. and of course, the Fall affected all of that.
Thank you.

So ... could you offer a suggestion of who or what I might read to get a little more expanded view on all this than I have right now? Is soteriology the right focus, to include all of these, or should I seek something broader?

Thank you so much for your help.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Thank you.

So ... could you offer a suggestion of who or what I might read to get a little more expanded view on all this than I have right now? Is soteriology the right focus, to include all of these, or should I seek something broader?

Thank you so much for your help.

look to St Silouan and the guys impacted by him who came out of Essex.
 
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~Anastasia~

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look to St Silouan and the guys impacted by him who came out of Essex.
Perfect - thank you. That's exactly who I'm beginning to look to now. I've been waiting years to have the go-ahead. :)

Thank you!
 
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just be careful with Fr Zacharias. his stuff is awesome just very heavy and dense at times.
Yes ... I found that to be overwhelmingly so in some places a few years ago. That could be part of the reason I was told to hold off for a while - I'm not sure.

In this particular subject I was (ideally) looking for a broad overview with some more depth than I have right now (which probably isn't that deep - or at least not well-connected in the many parts I've collected that relate).

I'll just have to see how it goes. I'm not sure if what I have goes into those topics (I was particularly interested in man's personal relationship with God), but I'll dig around and see if I can't find something specific to the topic from them, just in case. :)

Thanks again, very much!
 
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ArmyMatt

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Yes ... I found that to be overwhelmingly so in some places a few years ago. That could be part of the reason I was told to hold off for a while - I'm not sure.

In this particular subject I was (ideally) looking for a broad overview with some more depth than I have right now (which probably isn't that deep - or at least not well-connected in the many parts I've collected that relate).

I'll just have to see how it goes. I'm not sure if what I have goes into those topics (I was particularly interested in man's personal relationship with God), but I'll dig around and see if I can't find something specific to the topic from them, just in case. :)

Thanks again, very much!

good deal. St Silouan and Fr Sophrony I think would be the best place to start. Fr Nicholas Sakharov, Met Heirotheos Vlachos and Fr Zacharias (depending on the book) after those first two.
 
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good deal. St Silouan and Fr Sophrony I think would be the best place to start. Fr Nicholas Sakharov, Met Heirotheos Vlachos and Fr Zacharias (depending on the book) after those first two.
Thank you.

I'm not familiar with Fr. Nicholas Sakharov, but I really liked Met. Heirotheos Vlachos (though at times, like Fr. Zacharias, I had to read a passage more than once to be sure I really understood it).

And I love what I've read from St. Silouan. I'm not sure if what I read from Fr. Sophrony was actually his, or Fr. Zacharias telling it - it's been a while.

But I love the entire stream from there. So much.

I'm not sure what I have is what you're suggesting though, as far as topic, so I'll go looking a bit more. Thank you so much!
 
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FireDragon76

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Fr Nicholas is Elder Sophrony's nephew. he has a book on the theology of his uncle called I Love therefore I Am.

That sounds like an interesting title, could you explain it a bit further?
 
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ArmyMatt

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That sounds like an interesting title, could you explain it a bit further?

I personally only leafed through it, and it's by SVS press, but I think he deals with what the Elder called the hypostatic principle, which is that persons are only true persons insofar as they are loving the other.

something like that I think
 
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FireDragon76

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I personally only leafed through it, and it's by SVS press, but I think he deals with what the Elder called the hypostatic principle, which is that persons are only true persons insofar as they are loving the other.

something like that I think

That sounds interesting because one of the things I've encountered recently studying secular postmodern and critical theory is a few academics recognizing the notion that agape, an uncalculating other-directdness, rather than a magisterial sense of reason, should be the basis for intellectual and cultural engagement.

Still, I think I agree with David Bentley Hart that our sense of personhood is fragmentary in this life, and therefore our sense of love must also be the same.
 
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ArmyMatt

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That sounds interesting because one of the things I've encountered recently studying secular postmodern and critical theory is a few academics recognizing the notion that agape, an uncalculating other-directdness, rather than a magisterial sense of reason, should be the basis for intellectual and cultural engagement.

Still, I think I agree with David Bentley Hart that our sense of personhood is fragmentary in this life, and therefore our sense of love must also be the same.

absolutele yes to your first point. but your second is one reason why I don't take DBH seriously. that is so wrong when looking at what the Fathers say. love is essential which means there is no way it is fractured if we participate in God.
 
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FireDragon76

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absolutele yes to your first point. but your second is one reason why I don't take DBH seriously. that is so wrong when looking at what the Fathers say. love is essential which means there is no way it is fractured if we participate in God.

It could be that he was speaking of the default nature of the human condition, or perhaps he is genuinely more Augustinian and therefore sees human existence in more tragic terms. It wasn't clear to me, I was just watching an interview with him on youtube having a discussion with an irreligious person.
 
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ArmyMatt

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It could be that he was speaking of the default nature of the human condition, or perhaps he is genuinely more Augustinian and therefore sees human existence in more tragic terms. It wasn't clear to me, I was just watching an interview with him on youtube having a discussion with an irreligious person.

except that is not the default human condition. it is very unnatural. and DBH is more than just Augustinian.
 
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Fr Nicholas is Elder Sophrony's nephew. he has a book on the theology of his uncle called I Love therefore I Am.
I personally only leafed through it, and it's by SVS press, but I think he deals with what the Elder called the hypostatic principle, which is that persons are only true persons insofar as they are loving the other.

something like that I think

Thank you!

That sounds very interesting as well ... something that has been pressing at the borders of my thought a few times in my life.

My reading list is starting to get long again ... ;)
 
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