Origins of the Universe and Science investigated

Piet Strydom said:

Now, If you refuse to admit that the Bible clearly states that on the 3rd day God separated the water and matter from each other, and therefore the step previous to that would render that the earth was a Mud Ball, sorry, then I can not help you on a simple and logical explanation.

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Piet Strydom said:

And please note that you are making assumptions that does not carry weight on my description I supplied. if I claim that the earth was a collection of Matter, Liquid, and Gas that developed into an atmosphere and a mud ball earth and then into land and ocean, where did you come by coral reefs?
We are still not there at all.

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Colter said:

Genesis was written by Israelite holy men and for an Israelite audience. Not only did they not know the history of the earth, they didn’t claim that they were inspired by God to write the pseudo-biographical narratives. The scriptures were intended for religious instruction and guidance, not idolatry!

The beast had already fallen by the time two educated adults, who spoke the same language, arrived from heaven. Cain knew there were people out in the world as well. Read Genesis again.

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Piet Strydom said:

I thought I will give the answer before leaving for home today.

Guys, If the land and Oceans were seperated on Day 3, it means that on the morning of day 1 the soil and water was mixed up into each other.
View attachment 218501 Just look at what science now found out about this claim I found in the Bible 8 years ago!
New Research Suggests Earth Started Its Days as a Giant Ball of Mud

Wow, I have the evidence that what I read in the Bible when I was still an Atheist, are now scientific and proven.
Once you understand the above, we will continue with our investigation on what Immanuel Kant and even Isaac Newton understood from Genesis.

The Next question is,
What was this firmament on day 2?
What waters was separated from each other?
(Tip, the Earth was a mud Ball and this means water was within its interior.)

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Piet Strydom said:

Well, if you refuse to look at what I have told you up until now, it is your error.
And as I said, we will still come to day 4, and by the way, the description of day 4 is also a scientific description that I will use to prove that science and the Biblical description correlates exaclty with each other.

Now, If you refuse to admit that the Bible clearly states that on the 3rd day God separated the water and matter from each other, and therefore the step previous to that would render that the earth was a Mud Ball, sorry, then I can not help you on a simple and logical explanation.

The fact is,
1. the Earth was a collection of Matter, Liquid and Gas before day 1.
2. on day 2 the gasses escaped from this collection and rendered an Atmosphere.
3. On the morning of the 3rd day the Earth would therefore have been a Mud Ball, for which I already showed you that science now agrees with a statement which I claimed in 2008 already.
Now we will discuss the firmament as well as what was this light before the first day, and why the Bible say that the Sun Moon and stars were made on the 4th day.

Please do not stay hooked on your question, it will be answered.
Just keep in mind that what I am telling you here is what I discovered what Kant described in 1755.
And this very same science was later discarded when La-Place came up with his spinning solar system theory, only to be proven incorrect whereby all later scientific discoveries correlated with the findings of the Nebular theory.
Guess what?
All the scientists today don't know that the scientific descriptions on the origins of the Universe they are claiming as fact, came out of Genesis.

Therefore, if you stay patient for a day or so, I will tell you what and how the nebular theory was developed from Genesis, then you can come back about the firmament, and critisize it.
I will appreciate your criticism then, but to try to force me into some admittance about a misconcepted idea you have on what the Bible say, does not validate any argument or answer.

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Colter said:

"What both developing science and religion need is more searching and fearless self-criticism, a greater awareness of incompleteness in evolutionary status. The teachers of both science and religion are often altogether too self-confident and dogmatic. Science and religion can only be self-critical of their facts. The moment departure is made from the stage of facts, reason abdicates or else rapidly degenerates into a consort of false logic."

Lacking the visible presence of God believers are tempted to make a fetish out of scripture. Also, Holy men use the scripture as the foundation for their authority. Because of fear and pride they wont concede faults in the Bible books. Science is forced to concede faults when confronted with facts.

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fat wee robin said:

So then, this proves that God did not create everything in just six 24 hour days , which I have never believed ,and this is yet more information against this tale .

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Piet Strydom said:

So far we established that on the 3rd day Land and ocean was separated.
That rendered the only conclusion that on the morning of the 3rd day, the earth was a mixture of matter and water. The Mud ball earth.
Am I correct?
or do you disagree?

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NobleMouse said:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts brother, and you bring up some really good points. First I want to apologize for being so long-winded in my response, I am terrible at being concise/succinct. That said, I hope you will find the time to read it. I believe you and I have different views as to the nature of the Bible and what it represents (I'll circle around to that). I completely agree with you that folks within both paradigms (science and the Bible) can become dogmatic and take it to a level that is unhealthy. Being dogmatic in and of itself is not a bad thing, after all Jesus was pretty dogmatic toward the Pharisees and Scribes and also when he said, "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." (Matthew 12:30). This is a pretty dogmatic statement and really pulls out the rug from underneath any 'middle ground'.

I consider myself relatively meager-minded, not that I think too lowly of myself either. We should have a right-sized view of ourselves, and a right-sized view of God. As far as confidence in the inerrancy of scripture, 2 Corinthians 3-4 states, "Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God,". There is reason for great confidence in God and His word (not because of who we are, but because of who He is), He is the author of all things and as stated in John 1:1-4, "...All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made..."

Now circling back around to the nature of the Bible and what it represents. The big question is: "Is the Bible inerrant?" And here in this forum talking about origins, specifically the Book of Genesis. I believe the answer is yes and here's why:

Jesus is the word made flesh, Jesus was with God in the beginning. While on earth Jesus was both fully man and fully God. Jesus quoted scripture (never contradicted or corrected it), He fulfilled every prophesy and worked miracles, attesting to who He claimed to be. Even 2 Timothy 3:16 states, "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,". If I want to learn about the character of God, where do I go? If I want to learn about why I need a savior, where do I go? If I want to learn about what it means to be a follower of Christ, where do I go? If I want to learn about what will happen to me when I die, where do I go? If I want to learn about why I am here and how all of creation came to be, where do I go? The answer: The Bible.

Here are a couple of links discussing the inerrancy of scripture and why it is important that we understand this:
What is biblical inerrancy?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_insp.htm

Ideas that scripture contains error and confusion comes from outside of the Bible. I believe you have referenced the Babylonian tablets in connection to Genesis (possibly to infer some plagiarism took place). Again, this idea originates outside of the Bible, and Jesus never quoted the Babylonian tablets, He quoted Genesis and He also said in John 5:46, "For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me."

The Bible may have been penned by men, but it was authored by God. In short: The Bible is inerrant. The Bible is not on the same plane as scientific texts... that were authored by people... who were not there in the beginning. Yes, it makes sense that scientific assertions should change over time as new information comes to light. The Bible; however, was authored by God, He was there, He did everything, and He told you enough of what He wanted you to know of how He did it and when He did it. He doesn't need to concede His story because it's His story and He loved you enough that He made you to be a part of it so know that it is true because it is His word. It's not mine or anybody else's.

I hope this doesn't just come across as run-on rant, it is not intended to be conceited or pious, I just wanted to share why there are very good reasons for having faith in all of God's word to be true. Be assured no servant that loved the Lord has ever stood before God and been mocked as a fool for having believed every letter of every word. Jesus said "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18). This refers to every word, every character, every line on each character. It is all true Colter, regardless of the opinions of those who weren't there and have a Ph.D in some -ology. God bless and please keep writing -

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1. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and animals.
2. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
3. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
4. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.
5. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they are allowed to rape as spoils of war.
6. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.

Colter said:

The false doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture

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Colter said:

The Hebrews exaggerated Old Testament books depicts God as a genicidal monster bearing no resemblance to the Loving God revealed in the life of Christ.

Instead of making excuses for the numerous errors and inconsistencies of the human writings of the Bible, we need to have the courage to defend the integrity of God the Father.

Example:

1. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and animals.
2. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
3. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
4. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.
5. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they are allowed to rape as spoils of war.
6. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.

While the Bible contains great spiritual truths and historic fragments, it contains much that isn’t accurate.

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Colter said:

The false doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture was used by the Jews to reject Jesus. They also denied reality and disallowed common sense to penetrate their hardened hearts.

Jesus quoted from the cream of Hebrew scripture that was true, he didn’t quote the error. Scripture is like the newspaper, it contains truth and error.

The Hebrews exaggerated Old Testament books depicts God as a genicidal monster bearing no resemblance to the Loving God revealed in the life of Christ.

Instead of making excuses for the numerous errors and inconsistencies of the human writings of the Bible, we need to have the courage to defend the integrity of God the Father.

Example:

1. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and animals.
2. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
3. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
4. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.
5. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they are allowed to rape as spoils of war.
6. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.

While the Bible contains great spiritual truths and historic fragments, it contains much that isn’t accurate.

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Piet Strydom said:

For today, and please I do not imply that anyone is a child, but I will do the analysis of the Nebular theory in a very simplistic manner.
lets see what the Bible say.
1. In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth.
2. and the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.…
3.And God said, let there be light!
4.And it was evening and Morning, the first day.
5.Day 2. Then God said let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from below the firmament with the waters from above the firmament.
6.Day 3 God separated land and sea
7.Day 4 God made the Lights in heaven.

Now, this is a small summary I looked at once I wanted to know what the Bible says about the origins of the Universe. keep in mind that at that time I wanted to disprove the Bible, and when I read Gen 1: 1 to 19, it did not make any sense to me.

Now, we see that the Bible gives the following description.
1. God created the Universe and Earth. At that stage the Universe was dark, the Earth was water, there was no life on Earth and Earth was without any form or recognisable shape.
2. God made Light and the first day passed.
3.On the second Day, God made a division or firmament between waters above and below this firmament.
4. on the third Day, God separated land and sea.
5. And on the Fourth day He made lights in the sky.

My problem was this thing called a firmament, that divided waters.
I just did not understand what it meant, and I could not discard genesis if I did not know what it said.
The answer, I learned a few days later after thinking about it, was in the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY!

THINK ABOUT THIS.
If God separated land and Sea on the Third day, how did the Earth look on the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY BEFORE LAND AND SEA WAS SEPARATED?
See you all tomorrow.

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NobleMouse said:

You say the Bible contains much that isn't accurate. Are you saying these events did not really happen? What more authoritative text do you plan to give your dissertation on when you have to give an account (as we all will) when standing before God and say that much of His word was inaccurate? Will it be your opinion and speculation, what somebody else told you?

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Colter said:

The false doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture was used by the Jews to reject Jesus. They also denied reality and disallowed common sense to penetrate their hardened hearts.

Jesus quoted from the cream of Hebrew scripture that was true, he didn’t quote the error. Scripture is like the newspaper, it contains truth and error.

The Hebrews exaggerated Old Testament books depicts God as a genicidal monster bearing no resemblance to the Loving God revealed in the life of Christ.

Instead of making excuses for the numerous errors and inconsistencies of the human writings of the Bible, we need to have the courage to defend the integrity of God the Father.

Example:

1. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and animals.
2. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
3. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
4. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.
5. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they are allowed to rape as spoils of war.
6. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.

While the Bible contains great spiritual truths and historic fragments, it contains much that isn’t accurate.

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Tom Farebrother said:

God is pretty intense. These things are descriptions of how life is - the world since the fall is full of sin, judgement and violence. I don’t think it’s possible for a person to get to know God while rejecting those things he or she isn’t comfortable with.

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