Origins of the Universe and Science investigated

[Piet Strydom]

I decided to open this thread to discuss something I learned almost 10 years ago when I investigated the claim of Atheists that the Author of the Bible does not know how the Universe came into existence due to His description not correlating with Scientific discoveries. At that stage I was still Agnostic, or shall I say a cowardly Atheist that thought it sounds nicer to be called an Agnostic in stead of an Atheist.
Well, let me show you what I learned.
Up until now no "Atheist" Scientist could show me that the information here was incorrect.
The best response I received was...
...I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS...
I WILL LEAVE A POST ONCE A DAY ON THIS FORUM TO ALLOW CHRISTIANS TO INVESTIGATE MY CLAIMS AND TO CRITICIZE WHAT I SAY.

 

[Piet Strydom]

For today, and please I do not imply that anyone is a child, but I will do the analysis of the Nebular theory in a very simplistic manner.
lets see what the Bible say.
1. In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth.
2. and the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.…
3.And God said, let there be light!
4.And it was evening and Morning, the first day.
5.Day 2. Then God said let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from below the firmament with the waters from above the firmament.
6.Day 3 God separated land and sea
7.Day 4 God made the Lights in heaven.

Now, this is a small summary I looked at once I wanted to know what the Bible says about the origins of the Universe. keep in mind that at that time I wanted to disprove the Bible, and when I read Gen 1: 1 to 19, it did not make any sense to me.

Now, we see that the Bible gives the following description.
1. God created the Universe and Earth. At that stage the Universe was dark, the Earth was water, there was no life on Earth and Earth was without any form or recognisable shape.
2. God made Light and the first day passed.
3.On the second Day, God made a division or firmament between waters above and below this firmament.
4. on the third Day, God separated land and sea.
5. And on the Fourth day He made lights in the sky.

My problem was this thing called a firmament, that divided waters.
I just did not understand what it meant, and I could not discard genesis if I did not know what it said.
The answer, I learned a few days later after thinking about it, was in the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY!

THINK ABOUT THIS.
If God seperated land and Sea on the Third day, how did the Earth look on the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY BEFORE LAND AND SEA WAS SEPARATED?
See you all tomorrow.

 

[God bless Joshua]

how did the Earth look on the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY BEFORE LAND AND SEA WAS SEPARATED?

before :

After :

 

[Oldmantook]

For today, and please I do not imply that anyone is a child, but I will do the analysis of the Nebular theory in a very simplistic manner.
lets see what the Bible say.
1. In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth.
2. and the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.…
3.And God said, let there be light!
4.And it was evening and Morning, the first day.
5.Day 2. Then God said let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from below the firmament with the waters from above the firmament.
6.Day 3 God separated land and sea
7.Day 4 God made the Lights in heaven.

Now, this is a small summary I looked at once I wanted to know what the Bible says about the origins of the Universe. keep in mind that at that time I wanted to disprove the Bible, and when I read Gen 1: 1 to 19, it did not make any sense to me.

Now, we see that the Bible gives the following description.
1. God created the Universe and Earth. At that stage the Universe was dark, the Earth was water, there was no life on Earth and Earth was without any form or recognisable shape.
2. God made Light and the first day passed.
3.On the second Day, God made a division or firmament between waters above and below this firmament.
4. on the third Day, God separated land and sea.
5. And on the Fourth day He made lights in the sky.

My problem was this thing called a firmament, that divided waters.
I just did not understand what it meant, and I could not discard genesis if I did not know what it said.
The answer, I learned a few days later after thinking about it, was in the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY!

THINK ABOUT THIS.
If God seperated land and Sea on the Third day, how did the Earth look on the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY BEFORE LAND AND SEA WAS SEPARATED?
See you all tomorrow.

The Hebraic cosmology teaches that the firmament is a solid dome above a stationary and flat-disc earth. The sun, moon and stars are beneath the firmament and not in outer space as science would have us believe.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/25/85/ca25853842092ce64b0a027cc879f195.jpg

 

[Piet Strydom]

To God Bless Joshua.

 

[God bless Joshua]

3.On the second Day, God made a division or firmament between waters above and below this firmament.

The water was made on the 2nd day which filled the atmosphere above and then felt down to fill the surface of the earth, then it became the sea that divide the land on the 3rd day.

The firmament, as if it divides the water in the air and the sea.

 

[Piet Strydom]

The Hebraic cosmology teaches that the firmament is a solid dome above a stationary and flat-disc earth. The sun, moon and stars are beneath the firmament and not in outer space as science would have us believe.

Oh Key?!
But I dont want to know what Hebraic cosmology teaches.
I want to know what Genesis 1: 1 to 19 teaches.
I want to know how the earth looked at the morning of the 3rd day?

 

[Piet Strydom]

The water was made on the 2nd day which filled the atmosphere above and then felt down to fill the surface of the earth, then it became the sea that divide the land on the 3rd day.

But I saw that before day 1 God say the Earth was water and darkness into its depth?
Then it is clear that water existed on the earth before this firmament was created.
It therefore did not fall onto Earth from the Atmosphere, but was on the earth already.

 

[God bless Joshua]

But I saw that before day 1 God say the Earth was water and darkness into its depth?

God didnt say the earth was water but without form.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the DEEP.

Without form : God was actually trying to explain about the boundless DEEP SPACE, the space was without form and void, the space was actually emptiness and darkness, boundless, unlimited. So before the earth and planets were created the space was without form and void.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters : God meant His Spirit moved in the boundless DEEP SPACE. (Moses was the man who wrote the book of Genesis, his understanding of God moving in boundless space is described with the word water, what kind of other words would you use to explain God moves in boundless SPACE to the ancient people? God swim in the air ? certainly not appropriate)

 

[Oldmantook]

Oh Key?!
But I dont want to know what Hebraic cosmology teaches.
I want to know what Genesis 1: 1 to 19 teaches.
I want to know how the earth looked at the morning of the 3rd day?

Hebraic cosmology is what the Bible teaches. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew.

 

[Piet Strydom]

God didnt say the earth was water but without form.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the DEEP.

Without form : God was actually trying to explain about the boundless DEEP SPACE, the space was without form and void, the space was actually emptiness and darkness, boundless, unlimited. So before the earth and planets were created the space was without form and void.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters : God meant His Spirit moved in the boundless DEEP SPACE. (Moses was the man who wrote the book of Genesis, his understanding of God moving in boundless space is described with the word water, what kind of other words would you use to explain God moves in boundless SPACE to the ancient people? God swim in the air ? certainly not appropriate)

I like your scrutiny.
But look, God said ... and the Earth was without form and void and the spirit hovered above the waters.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

God is here speaking of the Earth, and taken into consideration that there was day and Night, such a thing does not occur in outer space, but on Earth.
The description has everything to do about Earth.
if you think about how the Earth looked on the Morning of Day 3, you will then understand what this Void, Deep and Water is before day 3.
Again, how did the earth look on the Morning of day 3 according to the Bible?

 

[Piet Strydom]

Hebraic cosmology is what the Bible teaches. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew.

True, then tell me in Old Testament Hebrew how the Earth looked on the Morning of Day 3?

 

[Piet Strydom]

I thought I will give the answer before leaving for home today.

Guys, If the land and Oceans were seperated on Day 3, it means that on the morning of day 1 the soil and water was mixed up into each other.

Just look at what science now found out about this claim I found in the Bible 8 years ago!
New Research Suggests Earth Started Its Days as a Giant Ball of Mud

Wow, I have the evidence that what I read in the Bible when I was still an Atheist, are now scientific and proven.
Once you understand the above, we will continue with our investigation on what Immanuel Kant and even Isaac Newton understood from Genesis.

The Next question is,
What was this firmament on day 2?
What waters was separated from each other?
(Tip, the Earth was a mud Ball and this means water was within its interior.)

 

[Oldmantook]

True, then tell me in Old Testament Hebrew how the Earth looked on the Morning of Day 3?

I think you have confused the "firmament" which is above the earth in the SKY with the land mass that God created on the SURFACE of the earth. As I stated earlier, the firmament is a solid dome above the earth which separates the waters above from the waters below. Look at the image I provided.
To suggest that the earth before Day 3 was mud would be to stretch the text beyond what it states as verses 7-9 only describe the waters. Land did not appear until verse 9. To suggest that "mud" existed before day 3 is not supported by the text.

 

[Colter]

For today, and please I do not imply that anyone is a child, but I will do the analysis of the Nebular theory in a very simplistic manner.
lets see what the Bible say.
1. In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth.
2. and the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.…
3.And God said, let there be light!
4.And it was evening and Morning, the first day.
5.Day 2. Then God said let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from below the firmament with the waters from above the firmament.
6.Day 3 God separated land and sea
7.Day 4 God made the Lights in heaven.

Now, this is a small summary I looked at once I wanted to know what the Bible says about the origins of the Universe. keep in mind that at that time I wanted to disprove the Bible, and when I read Gen 1: 1 to 19, it did not make any sense to me.

Now, we see that the Bible gives the following description.
1. God created the Universe and Earth. At that stage the Universe was dark, the Earth was water, there was no life on Earth and Earth was without any form or recognisable shape.
2. God made Light and the first day passed.
3.On the second Day, God made a division or firmament between waters above and below this firmament.
4. on the third Day, God separated land and sea.
5. And on the Fourth day He made lights in the sky.

My problem was this thing called a firmament, that divided waters.
I just did not understand what it meant, and I could not discard genesis if I did not know what it said.
The answer, I learned a few days later after thinking about it, was in the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY!

THINK ABOUT THIS.
If God seperated land and Sea on the Third day, how did the Earth look on the MORNING OF THE THIRD DAY BEFORE LAND AND SEA WAS SEPARATED?
See you all tomorrow.

The story of 6 day creation comes in part from the ancient story that Adam and Eve, who incarnate from heaven on an evolved, populated, previously fallen earth, spent their first 6 days surveying the garden which had been prepared for them in anticipation of their arrival. On the 7th day they rested.

Also, for ages the sun was obscured by a cloudy haze in the earths atmosphere. When that finally dissipated it was a significant event for mankind.

Genesis contains human speculation and conjecture. It’s a human creation based on the fragments of ancient traditions from far distant days.

 

[NobleMouse]

I like your scrutiny.
But look, God said ... and the Earth was without form and void and the spirit hovered above the waters.


God is here speaking of the Earth, and taken into consideration that there was day and Night, such a thing does not occur in outer space, but on Earth.
The description has everything to do about Earth.
if you think about how the Earth looked on the Morning of Day 3, you will then understand what this Void, Deep and Water is before day 3.
Again, how did the earth look on the Morning of day 3 according to the Bible?

I've been of the understanding that the earth was basically water in the beginning. This understanding seems consistent with 2 Peter 3:5 (from the ESV):

"For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, "

Greek (sorry, I don't know how the paste will come across)
καὶ γῆ ἐξ ὕδατος καὶ δι’ ὕδατος συνεστῶσα τῷ τοῦ Θεοῦ λόγῳ
and [the] earth out of water and through water having been composed by the - of God word

Don't know if this helps, but it is my understanding that at the beginning of earth being created there was no land, then God formed land in one place (sometimes referred to as "Pangea") on day 3. The word "void" is likened to also represent chaos, so I imagine this is describing a state of the earth where God was in the process of organizing matter to His purposes.

 

[Piet Strydom]

I think you have confused the "firmament" which is above the earth in the SKY with the land mass that God created on the SURFACE of the earth.

Well, It might be because I am not reading Genesis with any preconceived ideas of what it says.
The reasoning is quite simplistic.
the Bible say, God separated Land and sea on the 3rd day, therefore any one can grasp that land and sea was mixed up before God separated both.
It MUST have formed from a MUD BALL EARTH!

This is the key to the description of the origins of the Universe, and this was how Newton and Kant also understood it. Give it some time and I will show you incredible insight on how Kant and Newton came to their theories.
Do you have any other explanation that if one separate soil and water from mud that it can occur any other way?
I dont know of any other scenario if we read the verse.

Next, I asked what was this firmament the Bible speaks about,
Well, it was the surface of this mud ball earth.
Look at the description. God made a firmament between waters below and waters above the firmament.
This is something we should envision before we can go further.
The Earth was a Mud Ball, and due to gravity heavier matter was collecting in its center creating a Mud ball with water seeping out into the lowest areas of its surface. Land and sea.
but prior to this, on Day 2, gas and moisture precipitated out of a huge collection of Matter and water infused with gas.

Nice, the atmosphere was created on day 2, with a mud ball Earth in its center.

 

[Piet Strydom]

Just look at a small representation on how I understand creation in Genesis.
Before day 1, a collection of Gas Matter and Liquid.
day 2, gas escapes from this formless collection of everything, creating the atmosphere.
Due to this action, a "firmament" formed between the moist atmosphere and the Mud Ball Earth, which is nothing more but the surface of the earth!

Now, the next question:
Why did this happen?

 

[Piet Strydom]

The firmament, as if it divides the water in the air and the sea.

You were correct.

 

[Piet Strydom]

Also, for ages the sun was obscured by a cloudy haze in the earths atmosphere. When that finally dissipated it was a significant event for mankind.

In a few days you will see that I am also going to clarify this event.
Give it a littlebit morre time.
I think I need you much more than I anticipated.
You cross swords and argue the way I need it.
Why you would ask?
because I need criticism for this observation, and you are good.