Order and Design

[Douglaangu]

We do not have fear, we have faith. We do not live by our feeling, we live by faith in the Living God. We are being perfected in God's Love and Perfect Love casts out all fear.

So thats a "Yes" then?
I trust you're aware that saying you have faith in something is the same as saying that there is nothing to support it.

 

[bagfullofsnakes]

No good ever came out of rewriting history for one's own benefit.

I didn't get that until just now. Very subtle, but very nice!

 

[JohnR7]

Science has given people the means to destroy each other, from the first caveman to pick up a rock, to the scientists that invented the H-Bomb.

That is for sure. Science seems to always be seeking to create new and different weapons of mass destruction. Chemical weapons, biological weapons. There seems to be no limit to the different ways that sciences comes up with for Godless people to do injury to their neighbor.

 

[JohnR7]

So thats a "Yes" then?
I trust you're aware that saying you have faith in something is the same as saying that there is nothing to support it.

I see that your trusting in all the wrong things.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Arikay]

Another Fun accusation from John.

Im sure you can provide evidence for this statement, right John?

"There seems to be no limit to the different ways that sciences comes up with for Godless people to do injury to their neighbor."

You can back it up, right? Or will this just be another time where I ask for you to back up your statement and you completly ignore it.

I would say John, carefull making statements you cant back up, I dont quite know how god likes that.

That is for sure. Science seems to always be seeking to create new and different weapons of mass destruction. Chemical weapons, biological weapons. There seems to be no limit to the different ways that sciences comes up with for Godless people to do injury to their neighbor.

 

[JohnR7]

Another Fun accusation from John.

Im sure you can provide evidence for this statement, right John?

"There seems to be no limit to the different ways that sciences comes up with for Godless people to do injury to their neighbor."

What is to back up? Science is all the time coming up with new weapons. Chemical weapons, biological weapons. They will keep trying to make a bigger and better sword right up to when Jesus comes and the sword will be beaten into a plow.

 

[JohnR7]

I would say John, carefull making statements you cant back up, I dont quite know how god likes that.

I am very careful about what I say. We need to guard over our heart and our thoughts also.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Another Fun accusation from John.

Im sure you can provide evidence for this statement, right John?

"There seems to be no limit to the different ways that sciences comes up with for Godless people to do injury to their neighbor."

You can back it up, right? Or will this just be another time where I ask for you to back up your statement and you completly ignore it.

I would say John, carefull making statements you cant back up, I dont quite know how god likes that.

And what does God say about quote-mining?

let's look at what I said that inspired John's ranting:

Science has given people the means to destroy each other, from the first caveman to pick up a rock, to the scientists that invented the H-Bomb.

Now let's look at the whole thing, including the part John chose to ignore:

Science has given people the means to destroy each other, from the first caveman to pick up a rock, to the scientists that invented the H-Bomb.

But religion, more than anything else in human history, has given people the desire to destroy each other. Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch-hunts; People have never had a problem inventing a God who hated the same things they hated, and gave them the green light to commit the atrocities they would've committed anyway.

Science gives you a gun; religion makes you want to shoot somebody.

Want to answer the quote in context this time, Johnny?

 

[AntiCow]

But religion, more than anything else in human history, has given people the desire to destroy each other. Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch-hunts; People have never had a problem inventing a God who hated the same things they hated, and gave them the green light to commit the atrocities they would've committed anyway.

Science gives you a gun; religion makes you want to shoot somebody.

Nope. Religion is not needed.

Consider the Communist regimes of the 20th century. Stalin alone killed 30 million, including the little known mass starvation of the Ukraine. Remember that Communism was wholly atheistic, and yet managed to out-kill the Nazis (who were also not religiously motivated).

It is popular and convenient to blame religion for all the world's ills, but this is a grossly inaccurate view. It is not religion that is the problem - it is people. That is the awful truth - that evil lies in all of us.

 

[Siliconaut]

@AntiCow: I also, would rather say that religion is just a special kind of ideology. It seems to me that unreflected ideologies are to blame for the major chunk of organised cruelty out there.

Since ideologies are something people get up to, yep, people are to blame - but that doesn't take all the blame off the tools (ideologies) some employ to command others.

 

[JohnR7]

That is the awful truth - that evil lies in all of us.

Oh NO! You mean we have to examine our OWN heart? Why do that when we can just be judgemental and critical of others?

 

[AntiCow]

@AntiCow: I also, would rather say that religion is just a special kind of ideology. It seems to me that unreflected ideologies are to blame for the major chunk of organised cruelty out there.

Since ideologies are something people get up to, yep, people are to blame - but that doesn't take all the blame off the tools (ideologies) some employ to command others.

You are quite right. Some tools are more appropriate for the task than others.

Still, a greater problem is that it is easy for people who do not believe, to join a group or pretend they have joined, and then manipulate that group for their own purposes.

Hitler is an example of this. He praised Christianity when it suited him, but then effectively banned it, and placed many pastors and priests in concentration camps. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Arikay]

So that would be a No, you can not back up another statement you have made. That was expected John.

Although its an analogy, just thought I would mention a bigger sword is not always better.

What is to back up? Science is all the time coming up with new weapons. Chemical weapons, biological weapons. They will keep trying to make a bigger and better sword right up to when Jesus comes and the sword will be beaten into a plow.

 

[JohnR7]

So that would be a No, you can not back up another statement you have made. That was expected John.

I have the power of God and all of Heaven backing me up. What do you have to back you up?

 

[Cantuar]

Science seems to always be seeking to create new and different weapons of mass destruction.

I think you're talking about technology, not science. And where does most of the money come from for research into defence? From the government, not from scientists. Governments are the ones who are interested in weapons.

Chemical weapons, biological weapons. There seems to be no limit to the different ways that sciences comes up with for Godless people to do injury to their neighbor.

Most of the technology is based on science that wasn't directed toward injuring anyone. Biological weapons are the offshoot of research directed toward controlling diseases. Chemical weapons are based on chemistry research that had nothing to do with wanting to kill people. It's governments that take these discoveries and demand that they be applied to producing weapons. And one of the greatest causes of war is that "self" wants to destroy "other" - and "other" is often characterised in terms of people who are suicidal enough to be worshipping another deity.

 

[Arikay]

So I will take that as a, No I dont have any evidence to back up my claim, but I am unwilling to retract it, so I will use god to hide behind.

Are you sure he enjoys being attached to possibly false claims?
Are you sure he enjoys being Used that way?

I have the power of God and all of Heaven backing me up. What do you have to back you up?

 

[ifriit]

I have the power of God and all of Heaven backing me up. What do you have to back you up?

Sorry, John, we don't believe in your supposed magical powers. Try again.

 

[JohnR7]

Sorry, John, we don't believe in your supposed magical powers. Try again.

Not now perhaps, but eventually everyone ends up a believer one way or the other.

 

[JohnR7]

Most of the technology is based on science that wasn't directed toward injuring anyone.

Most research seems to be directed toward making money now a days. I do not think it was that way after WW2, but a lot of greed has crept in somewhere along the way.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Not now perhaps, but eventually everyone ends up a believer one way or the other.

Why does this sound like "You better believe or else I'll sic my pet God on you!"?