[open]WWMC posters...Give us some input

[Im_A]

The old issue of definition of WWMC has come up again. We really would like to have your input here.

The concern is that us mods are trying and wanting to establish this as a Congregational Forum and to find a way that this will work within CF's rules but also to make sure that the regulars here, the gay Christians, the liberal Christians, the post-modern Christians, the moderate Christians, or whoever Christian that don't fit in with CF identification with congregational forums have a safe haven here at CF.

Give us some of your input please.

 

[scraparcs]

I'm not sure what my thoughts are. It's a delicate balance that can be a bear to achieve.

As they say, it's like inappropriate contentography, you know it when you see it...

 

[RedneckAnglican]

don't look at me...I'm conservative...I just like y'all...

 

[Crazy Liz]

What's the requirement for a definition?

Having been excluded from my other CF Congregation by narrow definitions, I'd like to resist restrictive definitions as much as possible.

So is there an offical definition of "definition" we need to be concerned about?

 

[Adammi]

I've been thinking about this all evening and I end up deleting everything I type because nothing works.
It's impossible to say what we are and it is almost just as difficult to say what we aren't.

The only thing that really defines us is "Whosoever will, may come."

 

[scraparcs]

Except that when fundamentalists come, people get upset.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Except that when fundamentalists come, people get upset.

I don't think so, if they don't flame.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I vote we leave well enough alone.

Screw definitions.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Except that when fundamentalists come, people get upset.

Only if/when they try to flaunt as a deliberate annoyance or force their toxic waste down our throats. I mean for real, if we wanted that, we'd go to THEIR forum instead.

Leave BEHIND the garbage which makes OTHERS feel "unwelcome" in CHRIST, and they are as welcome here as every other "whosoever"!!!

In other words ................... hate the sin, love the sinner!!! OUR version!!!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

The only thing that really defines us is "Whosoever will, may come."

I agree, though it might be useful to include some sort of notion about being a safe haven for the "disenfranchised" ... a "city of refuge" as it were. NOT as an exclusive definition of WWMC, but as an inclusive clarification of an element we want to preserve and protect. A way of saying "OK, so you don't want these folks in YOUR churches -- that's your choice -- but this is a place they are welcome, and you don't have the right to come spreading your "unwelcoming" attitudes here as the definition of Christianity, for we define the Cross and Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ as, indeed, a place where "whosoever will, may come."

 

[Im_A]

Except that when fundamentalists come, people get upset.

you nailed the biggest concern in my opinion.

now to the concern i now see as mod here.

it's one thing to want a congregational forum here at CF, but it's another to have nothing to truly make it concrete as a congregational forum.

mere examples:

it isn't fair to the liberals, homosexual Christians, post-modern Christians, moderate Christians, or any ole Christian that doesn't have a place here as identification in the Congregational Forums as their "home" forum if that's what their looking to just constantly have debate and debate about whatever, that always lead up to rule violations, feelings being hurt and so on so forth.

but at the same time, it isn't fair to the conservatives or fundamentalists to get slapped on with warning after warning, when there is nothing "official" or in black and white that says an official definition and to debate and not be in that definition you will receive a warning and protocol will be done.

people can come in here and think they can debate because politically they are liberal, but theological they are fundamentalists or way on the right and then what are the mods to do? thus self-defeating the whole "WWMC" slogan we have.

personally if exclusion is the way to go to be sure that homosexual Christians can come in here and talk about their sexuality without the fear of debate or saying how wrong they are, or liberal, post-modern, moderates, or the outsiders of CF that don't have a home forum to come to, then i'm all game for exclusion. there are other forums that CF offers to debate things of this nature, and more. WWMC just may not be one of them places, just as i can't go and debate in the Luthern forum why i'm not a fan of Martin Luther. it's not fair to them to hear some rhetoric against Luther. same goes for the Fundamentalist Forum. i could probably go on and on about why i see the Fundamentalist movement that started not that long ago as being something that i don't support. but it's not fair for them to have the likes of me go in there and go on and on about it. if i was that concerned tho, i'd be in the forums that allow for that type of discussion. i'm not but i'm just trying to make a point here.

now i really don't want to mess up the who the regulars are "known" to be here now. that's why a definition i see has to be a bit broad based. this forum isn't solely made up of Trinitarian Liberal Christians. there are only a few of us liberals that are here possibly. i really wish there were others allowed but CF has a standard that has to be accepted and i'm thankful to CF that we can use [open] tags.

we are the leftovers here at CF in my opinion and to keep our humble aboad set in this corner and make it more set that CF will know this forum will be stood up for and not just some forum of reprobates needing help (because i know i'm one that could turn it right back on anyone that sees us as that), i really hope we can get some definition set up.

sorry for a blunt rant here, just in regards to forums here at CF, this is my favorite. the one that i met most of my online friends here at CF and maybe the ONLY forum that has been an online supplement for my faith so it's a bit personal for me but also now as a mod the issues are like a stye in the eye.

 

[No Swansong]

I don't think so, if they don't flame.

Working as a mod here I can tell you people do.

The primary problem is that if a Fundamentalist comes here and debates, he or she is reported as a non-member debating. However to enforce non-member debate we have to be able to define who is and who is not a member. Do you see the problem? And indeed it is almost always reported.

 

[Adammi]

Perhaps we could modify the Wikipedia definitions of liberal and progressive Christianity.

Liberal Christianity:

• The Bible is the witness and Word of God rather than the words of God, to be interpreted in its historical context through critical analysis, and with a focus on Jesus' statements on peace, justice, fairness, compassion and love.
• The Bible's Creation account is primarily symbolic. God created the scientific laws and the very fundamental processes of the universe and of all life, as seen in evolution, which are continually being revealed by modern science. Liberal Christians can accept the ideas of evolutionary biology in the same way that they acknowledge other mechanistic ideas in the physical sciences. As long as God's sovereign control, purpose, and design in Creation is recognized, the evolutionary account is a feasible description of the secondary causes involved.[4]
• Humanity did not physically inherit original sin from Adam and Eve; Satan does not actually exist.
• God is good and made people inherently good.
• Liberal Christians compare Bible passages in the light of contemporary Jewish, pagan and non-canonical Christian writings. They also study the culture of the time and the beliefs of surrounding pagan societies.[5]
• The Bible is not inerrant. There are passages in the Gospels and Epistles of the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) that contain beliefs unique to the author and his/her faith group, words created by the authors and attributed to Jesus, stories of events that never happened, material picked up from surrounding cultures, etc. [5]
• Homosexuality is not a sin.

Progressive Christianity:

• A spiritual vitality and expressiveness, including participatory, arts-infused, and lively worship as well as a variety of spiritual rituals and practices such as meditation
• Intellectual integrity including a willingness to question
• An affirmation of human diversity, including, most topically, the affirmation of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people
• An affirmation of the Christian faith with a simultaneous sincere respect for other faiths
• Strong ecological and social justice commitments

 

[Tenebrae]

The biggest issue I have with fundies is when they come with the whole abortion is bad, gay people cant be christians, liberals are evil etc

This sort of stuff IMO impacts on those regulalr posters here who may have had an abortion, or may be pro choice, or may be gay, and it makes an unsafe place for them as well.....

Fundies are welcome, however the fundie rhetoric needs to stay at the door.

 

[UberLutheran]

Honestly, I really don't care if a "conservative" comes in here as long as they're respectful of others and they don't condemn people who don't think like them.

I like RedNeckAnglican a lot. I've never felt condemned or judged by him in the least.

B®ent is showing he has a human side, too — and that's refreshing. I'm sure he and I will never agree on theology, politics or issues regarding sexual orientation, but I'm willing to agree to disagree (as long as the disagreement is agreeable).

I really like the Wikipedia definitions of Liberal Christianity and Progressive Christianity. It fits me very nearly to a "T".

I will say this is one of the few forums within CF where I feel comfortable posting.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Howza about we be an experiment in openness?

 

[chaoschristian]

The old issue of definition of WWMC has come up again. We really would like to have your input here.

Thank you. That's far better than coming in here one day and finding the place barricaded and lines drawn between the us-ses and the them-ses.

The concern is that us mods are trying and wanting to establish this as a Congregational Forum

Why? Is there a great call from the regulars here to do this?

and to find a way that this will work within CF's rules

Mistake. The rules of CF and the general philosophy and tone and WWMC are not exactly compatible in this regard.

but also to make sure that the regulars here, the gay Christians, the liberal Christians, the post-modern Christians, the moderate Christians, or whoever Christian that don't fit in with CF identification with congregational forums have a safe haven here at CF.

Safety is overrated. I'd rather meet face to face on the level. I can't see a person when there are barricades between us.

Let's keep the door [OPEN] and continue to be hospitable and charitable.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Perhaps we could modify the Wikipedia definitions of liberal and progressive Christianity.

Liberal Christianity:

• The Bible is the witness and Word of God rather than the words of God, to be interpreted in its historical context through critical analysis, and with a focus on Jesus' statements on peace, justice, fairness, compassion and love.
• The Bible's Creation account is primarily symbolic. God created the scientific laws and the very fundamental processes of the universe and of all life, as seen in evolution, which are continually being revealed by modern science. Liberal Christians can accept the ideas of evolutionary biology in the same way that they acknowledge other mechanistic ideas in the physical sciences. As long as God's sovereign control, purpose, and design in Creation is recognized, the evolutionary account is a feasible description of the secondary causes involved.[4]
• Humanity did not physically inherit original sin from Adam and Eve; Satan does not actually exist.
• God is good and made people inherently good.
• Liberal Christians compare Bible passages in the light of contemporary Jewish, pagan and non-canonical Christian writings. They also study the culture of the time and the beliefs of surrounding pagan societies.[5]
• The Bible is not inerrant. There are passages in the Gospels and Epistles of the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) that contain beliefs unique to the author and his/her faith group, words created by the authors and attributed to Jesus, stories of events that never happened, material picked up from surrounding cultures, etc. [5]
• Homosexuality is not a sin.

Progressive Christianity:

• A spiritual vitality and expressiveness, including participatory, arts-infused, and lively worship as well as a variety of spiritual rituals and practices such as meditation
• Intellectual integrity including a willingness to question
• An affirmation of human diversity, including, most topically, the affirmation of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people
• An affirmation of the Christian faith with a simultaneous sincere respect for other faiths
• Strong ecological and social justice commitments

Eeeeewwwww! That's an ugly article.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Safety is overrated. I'd rather meet face to face on the level. I can't see a person when there are barricades between us.

I'd rather there be SOMEWHERE on CF where one can go knowing they won't be harrassed and abused. Why is "no harrassing" a "barricade"? What is wrong with a no-poo-flinging zone? It's not keeping anyONE out ... it's only keeping the flinging of poo out.

Let's keep the door [OPEN] and continue to be hospitable and charitable.

No argument there, but in real life, if someone abuses hospitality and takes a dump on my rug, they are going to be told either clean that up and do not repeat it, or leave. (Provided they are past the age of 3, of course.)

 

[Im_A]

Thank you. That's far better than coming in here one day and finding the place barricaded and lines drawn between the us-ses and the them-ses.



Why? Is there a great call from the regulars here to do this?

when us mods receive reports from people who don't want fundies or conservatives debating with them here, but then again want no definition, it's a double standard.

Mistake. The rules of CF and the general philosophy and tone and WWMC are not exactly compatible in this regard.

if that's the case, WWMC should be done away with. obviously that isn't the case, because people here got this created and proved the case. so what's your point?

Safety is overrated. I'd rather meet face to face on the level. I can't see a person when there are barricades between us.

it's not about safety. it's about being fair. there are multitudes of forums to engage in unhealthy, ungodly debate at. this isn't one of them. and there are multitude of forums to engage in healthy, godly debates about certain topics too. this place isn't one to debate between different sides, hence it is in the congregational forums.

Let's keep the door [OPEN] and continue to be hospitable and charitable.

we will always be hopsitable and charitable. we use open tags and we allow about anyone to come in and talk. but the fact is, if the posters want this in the congregational area, it's time to stop being PC about it and actually get something formed up make it a congregational forum instead of some open forum inside the closed forums.