I wouldn’t cite that passage. It’s more likely that this is a human limitation, due to the Incarnation.
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I wouldn’t cite that passage. It’s more likely that this is a human limitation, due to the Incarnation.Might Jesus' admission that he did not know the date of his return be one scriptural proof that God need not know the future exhaustively, since Jesus was fully God as even non-open theists would agree?
(Me) Are you saying God can't 'cause' these things to come true, as in "bring it to pass"?On the contrary:
“God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:” (Westminster Confession of Faith)
Orthodox Christianity has the merit of being self consistent, you see?
Whatever God 'ordains' (decrees, plans, decides) God will 'cause' and 'bring to pass' (what I asked is, you have to agree with that right?)
The most 'consistent' thing here is the Calvinist misunderstanding of election, foreknowledge and predestined. Thats a sweeping generalization of the term Orthodox; as 'Orthodoxy' doesn't consistently agree with Calvinism. Because within Eastern, Catholic, and the Reformed churches there are differing or 'inconsistent' views of election etc.
This is poetry. It is trying to say that God knows the author completely. It really only says that God knows his words before he speaks them. This is not a statement that God knows everything that everyone will do for all of history.
I checked a number of translations. The NASB is unusual. Most are more explicit that God knows your words before you speak them. So are the two commentaries I checked.
This is proof-texting at its worst.
The prophets in general are speaking of God's intentions rather than predicting.
Why ?Interesting. This would answer the problem with prayer. Why do we pray? Does it really change anything? Did God foreknow we were going to pray and thus knew the outcome?
If God only knows what's happening at the moment, it would make more sense that when we pray we may get a YES to that prayer.....
No. Not if seeking the Truth. I believe that there's obvious real or potential troubles with your suggestion.Try reading Thomas Aquinas on the subject of predestination, or St Augustine for that matter.
While you are at it, you could go to Amazon and try typing Fr Reginald Garrigou Lagrange into their search engine.
I'm not sure "prediction" is really the appropriate description, perhaps not the most accurate , per se.That is essentially true, but it doesn't eliminate prediction.
The roles of OT prophets were:
- To speak for God (see Jer 23:22; Deut 18:18; Ex 4:15-16);
- To be mediators of God's covenant through announcing blessings and curses (e.g. Lev 26; Deut 4, 28-32);
- Prediction (e.g. Micah 5:2, virgin birth; Isa 7:14; 9:6). In Jer 25:11-12, we have a prophecy given between 626-586 BC, but was not fulfilled until 50 years later.
Whatever he is supposed to have emptied himself of, the question remains whether he was still fully God as a result. If he was - and most conservative theologians maintain he was - then this is scriptural proof that one can be God yet not know the future exhaustively. In that case, there is no need to insist the same of God.".. Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men" (Philippians 2)
I agree it was Jesus' own emptying of himself, or, He limited Himself of some of His divine attributes only 'for the incarnation'.
But I do believe the 'time' of the end is open ended, meaning God can wait or hurry the events that HE 'plans' to do.
The open theist view says God is 'more amazing' and omniscient than the limited doctrine of 'closed' theism.Absolutely, and since he knows what he is going to bring about, he knows the future, contrary to what the open theists would have us believe. I really don’t know what you are prattling on about.
Try reading Thomas Aquinas on the subject of predestination, or St Augustine for that matter.
While you are at it, you could go to Amazon and try typing Fr Reginald Garrigou Lagrange into their search engine.
This is normally not seen as an issue of God's omniscience, but rather of the fact that as fully man, when he is speaking as a man he doesn't have full knowledge. Remember, it's a heresy to deny that he has a distinct human mind.Whatever he is supposed to have emptied himself of, the question remains whether he was still fully God as a result. If he was - and most conservative theologians maintain he was - then this is scriptural proof that one can be God yet not know the future exhaustively. In that case, there is no need to insist the same of God.
As an aside, I think the KJV correctly renders the Philippian verse to read that Jesus "made himself of no reputation" i.e. what he emptied himself of by becoming man was his heavenly glory. Therefore he retained all his eternal attributes, including omniscience.
This is poetry. It is trying to say that God knows the author completely.
The open theist view says God is 'more amazing' and omniscient than the limited doctrine of 'closed' theism.
I'm not sure "prediction" is really the appropriate description, perhaps not the most accurate , per se.
Everything, every prophecy of Scripture is fulfilled as Yahweh says - foretelling, not predicting, what will be, perfect in the knowledge that it will be as Yahweh Says..
The difference is , a prediction can fail (like weather predictions every day!!!!!!!!)
Yahweh's Word NEVER FAILS.
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