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What about the assurances given by Jesus Himself as I have shown above?
Jesus would not preach warnings and hell if it were a lie. Those warnings help me be assured of eternal life with Him.
Personally I believe eternal security is only for those who continue in being faithful and obedient. It is not who starts the race but who finishes and overcomes. I believe this because there are many warnings specifically towards believers about the dangers of backsliding, becoming ineffectual and there being no atonement for continual disobedience after knowing God’s blessings and the punishment of hell.
Are you saying that we are "kept" by our obedience and own belief?
Look at Peter's turning back to follow the law in eating. He had tasted of the heavenly, seen with his own spiritual eyes that there is no unclean and yet he deliberately choose to align himself with those following the law. If he had continued in that he (even tho his repentance was geniune) would have been classified with those who are poor, naked and blind ..Personally I believe eternal security is only for those who continue in being faithful and obedient. It is not who starts the race but who finishes and overcomes. I believe this because there are many warnings specifically towards believers about the dangers of backsliding, becoming ineffectual and there being no atonement for continual disobedience after knowing God’s blessings and the punishment of hell.
I do not know what I am saying I do not always know what I really think till I write it out. I believe Christ redeemed me certainly!
But I feel like there is always a risk that I will become distracted, ineffectual and walk away to my doom and that God lets that happen to some.
John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgement); but is passed from death unto life". The words "have passed from death into live", in the Greek, "μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν", show that this transition has already taken place, which happened when the sinner "heard and believed". Salvation is started and completed UPON being "born-again".
Yes, I like those verses. I believe the experience of Salvation is one that permanently alters your mind and state of being. And this cannot be undone.It really comes down to reading of Hebrews 6 or 10 that those who have tasted of the heavenly things turning back to the law after experiencing grace. That wasn't the case with Judas. No Judas literally trampled the son of God under his feet. But a discussion of Judas is probably outside the scope of this thread.
I have no opinion on the state of mind, or belief of Judas. I only mentioned him because i felt he believed in Jesus and called him by name....and it was mentioned that this was all that was required to be eternally saved. It may also be good to note that Peter was called Satan as well...No he didn't. Judas called Jesus Lord But, he never really meant it or followed up with the faith. Nor did he ever really rely on Jesus for salvation. He pretended to believe in Jesus and Jesus knew it. Only God knows whether or not Judas is saved or not. But, considering Jesus called him a devil and said that he was lost, he probably is lost.
These are all verses stating that you CAN lose your salvation-
Matthew 13:20-21
Matthew 24:44-51
Matthew 18:28-35
Mark 4:16-18; Mark 11:25;
Mark 13:20-23;
Luke 8:13
Luke 12:42-46; John 6:60-71
John 12:44-48; John 15:5-6;
John 17:12; Acts 20:28-30;
Romans 6:12-13,16;
Romans 8:12-13;
Romans 11:20-22;
1 Corinthians 3:13-17
1 Corinthians 6:8-11
1 Corinthians 6:15-18
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
1 Corinthians 10:2,9
1 Corinthians 10:11-12
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 5: 20- 6:2
2 Corinthians 11:2
2 Corinthians 13:5
Galatians 1:6-9
Galatians 4:8-9
Galatians 5:19-21
Galatians 6: 7-9
Ephesians 5:2-6
Philippians 2: 12-16
Philippians 3:10-13
Colossians 1:21-23
Colossians 3:5-9, 24-25
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1Timothy 5:8
1Timothy 5:14-15
1Tim. 6:9-10
1Tim. 6: 20-21
2 Tim. 2:11-12
Titus 3:8-11
Hebrews 2:1-3
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 3:18-4:1
Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:23-29
Hebrews 12:12-17, 25
James 1:14-16
James 2:12-13
James 4:4
James 5:8-9, 19-20
2 Peter 1:3-4
2 Peter 2:1-2, 14-15, 20-22
2 Peter 3:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 3:14-18
1 John 5:17
2 John 8:9
Revelation 2:4-5
I have no opinion on the state of mind, or belief of Judas. I only mentioned him because i felt he believed in Jesus and called him by name....and it was mentioned that this was all that was required to be eternally saved. It may also be good to note that Peter was called Satan as well...
If being saved means to be saved from hell fire........Wouldnt we have to wait until death and hell are cast into the fire and we are not, before saving we have been saved?
Not really, none of these definitively affirm that a person was saved in the first place. I gain assurance from the fact that I am not saved by my actions but rather by Christ, that "no one can snatch me out of his hand" and "nothing can separate me from the love of God".
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39
I'm quite certain that scripture states Judas wasn't savedI have no opinion on the state of mind, or belief of Judas. I only mentioned him because i felt he believed in Jesus and called him by name....and it was mentioned that this was all that was required to be eternally saved. It may also be good to note that Peter was called Satan as well...
Eventually sure but it expressly says that the Holy Spirit conveys to our human spirit that we are a child of God now, not have to wait till eternity to be one.If being saved means to be saved from hell fire........Wouldnt we have to wait until death and hell are cast into the fire and we are not, before saving we have been saved?
Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 6:37-6:40
"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
John 10:27-29
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."
Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?
What is being saved? Johns words are true. But there is belonging to Christ and thinking one belongs to Christ.Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 6:37-6:40
"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
John 10:27-29
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."
Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?
Easy save is anything but. I think that people who believe in easy save, won't lift a finger, have no interest in doing the inner work that gains rewards.IMO, people believe ES because they want to, that way they can have their cake and eat it too. I personally think it's the devils way of getting as many as he can to join him in his abode here at the end times before the Lord returns. A last huge desperate effort, and it's working.
It's the perfect scam, gives people permission to do as they want, and get to Heaven too. But in the end, no one is being fooled into believing it, it's what they choose to believe because they don't wan to do as the bible tells them. The Devil loves it.
We are put here to see who overcomes, but with ES there is nothing to overcome, hence no point to the present process.
Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
With ES there is no narrow or wide gate, just claim you believe and go the narrow, wide or something in between. And does "destruction" there sound like heaven to you? So, ES makes that verse completely null. It's like checking your answer in math, if at any point it doesn't fit, something is wrong.
And lastly, do you feel if you just "believe" (And there is a lot to that term "believe" that I don't think you are seeing), you can do any or all of the following on a regular basis and still go to heaven? Or are we going to just make that verse null as well?
1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.
Again, can we as saved individuals remained saved if we do those things as part of our lifestyle? If you say no, there is no ES, if you say yes, then that verse and several others a lot like it are a lie. IOW there is something amiss, somewhere. Check your math.
ES, don't believe it, and don't teach it, it's just another Easy Street to Heaven illusion for those who prefer to believe it over the truth..
Not really, none of these definitively affirm that a person was saved in the first place. I gain assurance from the fact that I am not saved by my actions but rather by Christ, that "no one can snatch me out of his hand" and "nothing can separate me from the love of God".
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39
Easy save is anything but. I think that people who believe in easy save, won't lift a finger, have no interest in doing the inner work that gains rewards.
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