One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

Citizen of the Kingdom

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Judas call Jesus by name many times and also believed he was as well....hence the "suicide" after the betrayal. Would you say Judas is Saved?

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

I think there is more to it than just believe and saying words.

But ultimately, I do agree, that once your salvation it known....it wont be lost.
I don't think Judas was ever saved even tho Jesus chose him. The reason I think that is because of greed (that God hates evidenced by Esua and Judas' hold on the money bag imo) and also Judas' lack of love demonstrated in his use of a kiss to betray.
 
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WilliamBo

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2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV) Paul uses the word fables (μύθους), or myths, to describe the remedy that people seek in order to scratch their itching ears.
 
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RaymondG

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I don't think Judas was ever saved even tho Jesus chose him. The reason I think that is because of greed (that God hates evidenced by Esua and Judas' hold on the money bag imo) and also Judas' lack of love demonstrated in his use of a kiss to betray.
It's possible. But do you think Judas ever called Jesus by name? and do you believe that Judas believe Jesus was the son of God? My post was a response to the notice that you are saved, without chance of losing salvation, if you do those two, previously mentioned, things.
 
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It's possible. But do you think Judas ever called Jesus by name? and do you believe that Judas believe Jesus was the son of God? My post was a response to the notice that you are saved, without chance of losing salvation, if you do those two, previously mentioned, things.
It really comes down to reading of Hebrews 6 or 10 that those who have tasted of the heavenly things turning back to the law after experiencing grace. That wasn't the case with Judas. No Judas literally trampled the son of God under his feet. But a discussion of Judas is probably outside the scope of this thread.
 
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friend of

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“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

This verse does not confirm whether or not those departing from the faith were ever born-again/saved in the first place.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Judas call Jesus by name many times and also believed he was as well....hence the "suicide" after the betrayal. Would you say Judas is Saved?

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

I think there is more to it than just believe and saying words.

But ultimately, I do agree, that once your salvation it known....it wont be lost.

No he didn't. Judas called Jesus Lord But, he never really meant it or followed up with the faith. Nor did he ever really rely on Jesus for salvation. He pretended to believe in Jesus and Jesus knew it. Only God knows whether or not Judas is saved or not. But, considering Jesus called him a devil and said that he was lost, he probably is lost.
 
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FenderTL5

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I spot checked about 10 of your verses at random. None say you can lose your salvation.
I did the same and I know my eyebrow was raised on some of them.
This is the challenge for any doctrinal statement resting on a series of 'proof texts' though isn't it? The Apostle Paul rarely, if ever, begins and ends his point in one or two verses of scripture. I started to post one of his points and it would've run through most of two whole chapters.
 
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DamianWarS

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Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 10:27-29


"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."


Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?

Saved from what?
 
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2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV) Paul uses the word fables (μύθους), or myths, to describe the remedy that people seek in order to scratch their itching ears.
Who are “they”?
 
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Halbhh

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Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 10:27-29


"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."


Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?

The Gospel of John verses you quote are saying no power can forcibly snatch you away from God. Notice how in that key verse 27 there is a certain characteristic of His sheep --

27 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."

See what His sheep are doing in the verse? They listen, and then they also follow. 2 actions.

A person that comes to Him at one time could walk away though... This reminds of us His parable about the seeds falling on various types of ground, some of which don't root deeply, and then wither and die. (Matthew 13:1-9)

In the Gospel of John, Christ instructs us that even if we continue to remain on the vine, that we must bear fruit or be cut off (read fully, but you will also see verse 2 and verse 6) --

1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14Y ou are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other."
 
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messager777

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@ mmbattlestar,

"Once saved always saved (Eternal Security)???????"

1COR.5: =
Immorality Defiles the Church
1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed.
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

No, I think 'once saved is not always saved'. That's likely cheap grace, similar to self-deluding infant baptism or like instant ramen/noodles or fast-food.
... Salvation or being saved from hell when we die, is predicated on our faith/belief/trust in Jesus Christ. People can lose faith or renounce their faith because of various reasons, some self-inflicted, like Judas Iscariot.
... Jesus Christ's messages to the seven 1st-century Churches may attest to this.(REVELATION.2 & 3)

In the above case at the Church of Corinth in Greece, a Gentile Christian was found to be committing incest and the Church was condoning his sin/evil-deed/law-breaking. This was likely because Roman Law permitted incest, adultery, homosexuality/sodomy, prostitution, idolatry, blasphemy, etc, similar to today's permissive US Law.
... According to the apostle Paul, if the sinner did not repent of his sin of incest, he was to be expelled from the Church. This would result in the sinner being physically destroyed by Satan(1JOHN.5:16-19) and hopefully he did not curse/blaspheme God/Jesus and died = was saved spiritually. In comparison, the wife of Job cursed/blasphemed God and died while suffering for Job's ignorant sin(JOB.1:5 & 3:25) = was not saved.

A time is coming soon when the world's governments will require people to receive the "Mark of the Beast" or computer chip implants, in order to be able to buy and sell stuffs.(REV.13:11-18 & 14:9-11) Those who refuse will be prosecuted/persecuted/mocked or left alone to starve to death. Those who accept the Mark will lose their salvation in Christ. Some "Christians" may renounce their faith and accept the Mark or implant because they choose to save their earthly lives = will lose eternal life.
... The Amish Christians in USA will not starve to death if they refuse the "Mark of the Beast" or computer chip implants.
 
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Saved.By.Grace

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If a person is truly "born-again", by acknowledging that they are lost sinners, that they deserve to spend eternity in hell, that none of their "good works" can ever get them saved. That they must believe in Christ ALONE, and His Perfect Completed Salvation on the cross. That they turn to Him and fully, from the heart confess their sins to Jesus (and not some "priest"), and accept that He is the only Saviour, and repent and ask forgiveness of all their sins, trusting in the Precious Blood of Jesus to have their sins washed away. then NO, that person, who is forgiven, and sanctified and washed and indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, CANNOT ever be lost and go to hell!

Jesus, Who is God Incarnate, gave this pledge at least three times in the Gospel of John.

John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgement); but is passed from death unto life". The words "have passed from death into live", in the Greek, "μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν", show that this transition has already taken place, which happened when the sinner "heard and believed". Salvation is started and completed UPON being "born-again".

John 10:27-28, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.". The Greek is much stronger here. "καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα". The use of the double negative, "οὐ μὴ", denotes that His sheep will "certainly never, ever perish". But it is even better in the Greek, which the English versions leave untranslated, "εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα". Jesus adds, "for ever". Under NO circumstances will those who are truly MY SHEEP, will EVER be lost! This is also further strengthened by the double-promise of "no one can pluck them out of My hand...My Father's hand" (verse 29). This is EMPHATIC language, with assurances that are made by ALMIGHTY GOD!

John 11:25-26, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?". Again, like the previous passage, we have, "οὐ μὴ ἀποθάνῃ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα". Where the "double negative" is also used, and the added assurance, "FOR EVER", which makes it far stronger than the English language has it!

Once truly "born-again" by God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, the "believer" is "KEPT by the Power of God" (1 Peter 1:5), where verse 4 tells us, "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you". Again very strong language for ETERNAL SECURITY of the true Christian. "incorruptible", "ἄφθαρτος", "eternal, immortal, not liable to corruption or decay"! AMEN!!!
 
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Halbhh

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If a person is truly "born-again", by acknowledging that they are lost sinners, that they deserve to spend eternity in hell, that none of their "good works" can ever get them saved. That they must believe in Christ ALONE, and His Perfect Completed Salvation on the cross. That they turn to Him and fully, from the heart confess their sins to Jesus (and not some "priest"), and accept that He is the only Saviour, and repent and ask forgiveness of all their sins, trusting in the Precious Blood of Jesus to have their sins washed away. then NO, that person, who is forgiven, and sanctified and washed and indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, CANNOT ever be lost and go to hell!

Jesus, Who is God Incarnate, gave this pledge at least three times in the Gospel of John.

John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgement); but is passed from death unto life". The words "have passed from death into live", in the Greek, "μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν", show that this transition has already taken place, which happened when the sinner "heard and believed". Salvation is started and completed UPON being "born-again".

John 10:27-28, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.". The Greek is much stronger here. "καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα". The use of the double negative, "οὐ μὴ", denotes that His sheep will "certainly never, ever perish". But it is even better in the Greek, which the English versions leave untranslated, "εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα". Jesus adds, "for ever". Under NO circumstances will those who are truly MY SHEEP, will EVER be lost! This is also further strengthened by the double-promise of "no one can pluck them out of My hand...My Father's hand" (verse 29). This is EMPHATIC language, with assurances that are made by ALMIGHTY GOD!

John 11:25-26, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?". Again, like the previous passage, we have, "οὐ μὴ ἀποθάνῃ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα". Where the "double negative" is also used, and the added assurance, "FOR EVER", which makes it far stronger than the English language has it!

Once truly "born-again" by God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, the "believer" is "KEPT by the Power of God" (1 Peter 1:5), where verse 4 tells us, "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you". Again very strong language for ETERNAL SECURITY of the true Christian. "incorruptible", "ἄφθαρτος", "eternal, immortal, not liable to corruption or decay"! AMEN!!!

Praise God!

Next you must read Matthew 7:24-27, (or one could begin in chapter 1 at verse 1 or at 18, and continue fully through Matthew and encounter this as you read). Here Christ tells is something we must do or the consequence of not doing is catastrophic. What "words of mine" are these? The sermon on the mount begins in chapter 5, but we know He tells us more and powerfully throughout the gospels, His instructions to us that save us. There is a step after the first step, because He is the way, the truth, and the Life. We follow Him. His sheep listen to Him and then follow.
 
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messager777

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I'm saying both. When we are saved we are saved both in this life and the next. Believers in Jesus have Eternal life right now when they're alive.
.
I don't think so, ie eternal life does not begin right now when we are still alive on this rotten and evil-ridden earth.
... Let me paraphrase JOHN.3:16 = For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish in hell but have everlasting life in the kingdom of heaven.

Remember, 1THESS.4:16 says that only believers will be resurrected from death/sleep or raptured alive(no need to die) and join their Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds when He next returns to earth. ...

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 
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Saved.By.Grace

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I don't think so, ie eternal life does not begin right now when we are still alive on this rotten and evil-ridden earth.
... Let me paraphrase JOHN.3:16 = For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish in hell but have everlasting life in the kingdom of heaven.

Remember, 1THESS.4:16 says that only believers will be resurrected from death/sleep or raptured alive(no need to die) and join their Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds when He next returns to earth. ...

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgement); but is passed from death unto life". The words "have passed from death into live", in the Greek, "μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν", show that this transition has already taken place, which happened when the sinner "heard and believed". Salvation is started and completed UPON being "born-again".
 
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Aimz

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Personally I believe eternal security is only for those who continue in being faithful and obedient. It is not who starts the race but who finishes and overcomes. I believe this because there are many warnings specifically towards believers about the dangers of backsliding, becoming ineffectual and there being no atonement for continual disobedience after knowing God’s blessings and the punishment of hell.

Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 10:27-29


"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."


Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?
 
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Saved.By.Grace

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Personally I believe eternal security is only for those who continue in being faithful and obedient. It is not who starts the race but who finishes and overcomes. I believe this because there are many warnings specifically towards believers about the dangers of backsliding, becoming ineffectual and there being no atonement for continual disobedience after knowing God’s blessings and the punishment of hell.

What about the assurances given by Jesus Himself as I have shown above?
 
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Neostarwcc

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Personally I believe eternal security is only for those who continue in being faithful and obedient. It is not who starts the race but who finishes and overcomes. I believe this because there are many warnings specifically towards believers about the dangers of backsliding, becoming ineffectual and there being no atonement for continual disobedience after knowing God’s blessings and the punishment of hell.

Good point. I didn't think of that.
 
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