One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

[Aimz]

Jesus would not preach warnings and hell if it were a lie. Those warnings help me be assured of eternal life with Him.

What about the assurances given by Jesus Himself as I have shown above?

 

[Geralt]

it is actually once saved by Christ, always will remain saved by christ.

- those who disagree attributes their salvation by their own contribution of choice.
- and presumes those who leave the christian faith were truly saved, and then decided not to be saved.

 

[Saved.By.Grace]

Jesus would not preach warnings and hell if it were a lie. Those warnings help me be assured of eternal life with Him.

Are you saying that we are "kept" by our obedience and own belief?

 

[Halbhh]

Personally I believe eternal security is only for those who continue in being faithful and obedient. It is not who starts the race but who finishes and overcomes. I believe this because there are many warnings specifically towards believers about the dangers of backsliding, becoming ineffectual and there being no atonement for continual disobedience after knowing God’s blessings and the punishment of hell.

Christ Himself did not use the word 'backsliding', but He told us the story of one who did, but then much later....much later in time....returned, even to the level that

"For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'

Notice that wording! "Dead", and then later "alive again" !

See? Backsliding is not necessarily a final outcome, but it's a situation, which must be repented of, just as in the parable --

Luke 15 NIV

 

[Aimz]

I do not know what I am saying I do not always know what I really think till I write it out. I believe Christ redeemed me certainly!
But I feel like there is always a risk that I will become distracted, ineffectual and walk away to my doom and that God lets that happen to some. You know that part in Pilgrim’s Progress with the guy in the birdcage who knew God but later rejected Him and could not go back to God that is my fear.

Are you saying that we are "kept" by our obedience and own belief?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Personally I believe eternal security is only for those who continue in being faithful and obedient. It is not who starts the race but who finishes and overcomes. I believe this because there are many warnings specifically towards believers about the dangers of backsliding, becoming ineffectual and there being no atonement for continual disobedience after knowing God’s blessings and the punishment of hell.

Look at Peter's turning back to follow the law in eating. He had tasted of the heavenly, seen with his own spiritual eyes that there is no unclean and yet he deliberately choose to align himself with those following the law. If he had continued in that he (even tho his repentance was geniune) would have been classified with those who are poor, naked and blind ..
There would have been need for Jesus to say "I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see."

Jesus would not have to tell Peter that He needed to die for him again. Once was enough.

 

[Saved.By.Grace]

I do not know what I am saying I do not always know what I really think till I write it out. I believe Christ redeemed me certainly!
But I feel like there is always a risk that I will become distracted, ineffectual and walk away to my doom and that God lets that happen to some.

It is always good to keep our eyes firmly upon Jesus, because we can become distracted by the sins of this world!

 

[Halbhh]

John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgement); but is passed from death unto life". The words "have passed from death into live", in the Greek, "μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν", show that this transition has already taken place, which happened when the sinner "heard and believed". Salvation is started and completed UPON being "born-again".

I didn't see it until now, but this all fits together in a certain way perfectly, about that 'passed from death into life' in relation to the other questions such as about those who leave....like the prodigal (aka 'backslide', aka 'lost', aka 'gone away', aka etc.).

If we notice the exact wording in the Parable of the Prodigal, quoted in post #44 here nearby. When the son left, he entered into a certain condition, by Christ's own word for that condition -- "dead". But when he repented, returned, he entered into a different condition, by Christ's own words for that condition -- "alive again" !

 

[RaymondG]

It really comes down to reading of Hebrews 6 or 10 that those who have tasted of the heavenly things turning back to the law after experiencing grace. That wasn't the case with Judas. No Judas literally trampled the son of God under his feet. But a discussion of Judas is probably outside the scope of this thread.

Yes, I like those verses. I believe the experience of Salvation is one that permanently alters your mind and state of being. And this cannot be undone.

 

[Aimz]

This makes me feel so much better my assurance is secure it is just the degrees of rewards that can be lost but no matter what I get to be in the new kingdom because He choose me.

 

[RaymondG]

No he didn't. Judas called Jesus Lord But, he never really meant it or followed up with the faith. Nor did he ever really rely on Jesus for salvation. He pretended to believe in Jesus and Jesus knew it. Only God knows whether or not Judas is saved or not. But, considering Jesus called him a devil and said that he was lost, he probably is lost.

I have no opinion on the state of mind, or belief of Judas. I only mentioned him because i felt he believed in Jesus and called him by name....and it was mentioned that this was all that was required to be eternally saved. It may also be good to note that Peter was called Satan as well...

If being saved means to be saved from hell fire........Wouldnt we have to wait until death and hell are cast into the fire and we are not, before saving we have been saved?

 

[mindlight]

These are all verses stating that you CAN lose your salvation-

Matthew 13:20-21
Matthew 24:44-51
Matthew 18:28-35
Mark 4:16-18; Mark 11:25;
Mark 13:20-23;
Luke 8:13
Luke 12:42-46; John 6:60-71
John 12:44-48; John 15:5-6;
John 17:12; Acts 20:28-30;
Romans 6:12-13,16;
Romans 8:12-13;
Romans 11:20-22;
1 Corinthians 3:13-17
1 Corinthians 6:8-11
1 Corinthians 6:15-18
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
1 Corinthians 10:2,9
1 Corinthians 10:11-12
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 5: 20- 6:2
2 Corinthians 11:2
2 Corinthians 13:5
Galatians 1:6-9
Galatians 4:8-9
Galatians 5:19-21
Galatians 6: 7-9
Ephesians 5:2-6
Philippians 2: 12-16
Philippians 3:10-13
Colossians 1:21-23
Colossians 3:5-9, 24-25
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1Timothy 5:8
1Timothy 5:14-15
1Tim. 6:9-10
1Tim. 6: 20-21
2 Tim. 2:11-12
Titus 3:8-11
Hebrews 2:1-3
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 3:18-4:1
Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:23-29
Hebrews 12:12-17, 25
James 1:14-16
James 2:12-13
James 4:4
James 5:8-9, 19-20
2 Peter 1:3-4
2 Peter 2:1-2, 14-15, 20-22
2 Peter 3:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 3:14-18
1 John 5:17
2 John 8:9
Revelation 2:4-5

Not really, none of these definitively affirm that a person was saved in the first place. I gain assurance from the fact that I am not saved by my actions but rather by Christ, that "no one can snatch me out of his hand" and "nothing can separate me from the love of God".

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

 

[Neostarwcc]

I have no opinion on the state of mind, or belief of Judas. I only mentioned him because i felt he believed in Jesus and called him by name....and it was mentioned that this was all that was required to be eternally saved. It may also be good to note that Peter was called Satan as well...

If being saved means to be saved from hell fire........Wouldnt we have to wait until death and hell are cast into the fire and we are not, before saving we have been saved?

Good question. I cannot answer that.

 

[WilliamBo]

Not really, none of these definitively affirm that a person was saved in the first place. I gain assurance from the fact that I am not saved by my actions but rather by Christ, that "no one can snatch me out of his hand" and "nothing can separate me from the love of God".

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

Yea, I know strong believers that firmly believe BOTH sides of the argument. For me, I fear losing my salvation so I am not going to say that I am ALWAYS saved unless I know in the depths of my soul, in the core of my being, that I will always be saved. Right now I do NOT have that confirmation, so I am doing what the scriptures say, to ''work out your salvation with fear and trembling''

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I have no opinion on the state of mind, or belief of Judas. I only mentioned him because i felt he believed in Jesus and called him by name....and it was mentioned that this was all that was required to be eternally saved. It may also be good to note that Peter was called Satan as well...

I'm quite certain that scripture states Judas wasn't saved

John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had already known from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) So Jesus added, “Because of this I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has allowed him to come.”
John 13:10-11
Jesus replied, “The one who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean. And you disciples are clean, but not every one of you.” (For Jesus knew the one who was going to betray him. For this reason he said, “Not every one of you is clean.”)
John 13:18
I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But it is to fulfill the scripture, ‘The one who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’
John 17:12
While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost, so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

If being saved means to be saved from hell fire........Wouldnt we have to wait until death and hell are cast into the fire and we are not, before saving we have been saved?

Eventually sure but it expressly says that the Holy Spirit conveys to our human spirit that we are a child of God now, not have to wait till eternity to be one.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 10:27-29


"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."


Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?

IMO, people believe ES because they want to, that way they can have their cake and eat it too. I personally think it's the devils way of getting as many as he can to join him in his abode here at the end times before the Lord returns. A last huge desperate effort, and it's working.

It's the perfect scam, gives people permission to do as they want, and get to Heaven too. But in the end, no one is being fooled into believing it, it's what they choose to believe because they don't wan to do as the bible tells them. The Devil loves it.

We are put here to see who overcomes, but with ES there is nothing to overcome, hence no point to the present process.

Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.

With ES there is no narrow or wide gate, just claim you believe and go the narrow, wide or something in between. And does "destruction" there sound like heaven to you? So, ES makes that verse completely null. It's like checking your answer in math, if at any point it doesn't fit, something is wrong.

And lastly, do you feel if you just "believe" (And there is a lot to that term "believe" that I don't think you are seeing), you can do any or all of the following on a regular basis and still go to heaven? Or are we going to just make that verse null as well?

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Again, can we as saved individuals remain saved if we do those things as part of our lifestyle, or as put there if they are what we are/were?? If you say no, there is no ES, if you say yes, then that verse and several others a lot like it are a lie. IOW there is something amiss, somewhere. Check your math.

ES, don't believe it, and don't teach it, it's just another Easy Street to Heaven illusion for those who prefer to believe it over the truth..

 

[Phantasman]

Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 10:27-29


"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."


Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?

What is being saved? Johns words are true. But there is belonging to Christ and thinking one belongs to Christ.

The chrism is superior to baptism, for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians," certainly not because of the word "baptism". And it is because of the chrism that "the Christ" has his name. For the Father anointed the Son, and the Son anointed the apostles, and the apostles anointed us. He who has been anointed possesses everything. He possesses the resurrection, the light, the cross, the Holy Spirit. The Father gave him this in the bridal chamber; he merely accepted (the gift). The Father was in the Son and the Son in the Father. This is the Kingdom of Heaven.

Once anointed by the Holy Spirit, it takes us as her own. We have given ourselves freely. And it nurtures us, cares for us as it did for Jesus. Once we are sons of the living God, no one can break that bond. But we have to have the spiritual knowledge to understand the spiritual Chrism. Do we see dead men walking, or the spiritual resurrection? Do we see Jesus as a man or his status as spiritual son of the spiritual Father? When we become spiritual we do not return to the (ideas of) flesh. Nor does flesh attract us anymore.

If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.

Water has no spiritual power. Those who believe so were never his in the first place.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

IMO, people believe ES because they want to, that way they can have their cake and eat it too. I personally think it's the devils way of getting as many as he can to join him in his abode here at the end times before the Lord returns. A last huge desperate effort, and it's working.

It's the perfect scam, gives people permission to do as they want, and get to Heaven too. But in the end, no one is being fooled into believing it, it's what they choose to believe because they don't wan to do as the bible tells them. The Devil loves it.

We are put here to see who overcomes, but with ES there is nothing to overcome, hence no point to the present process.

Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.

With ES there is no narrow or wide gate, just claim you believe and go the narrow, wide or something in between. And does "destruction" there sound like heaven to you? So, ES makes that verse completely null. It's like checking your answer in math, if at any point it doesn't fit, something is wrong.

And lastly, do you feel if you just "believe" (And there is a lot to that term "believe" that I don't think you are seeing), you can do any or all of the following on a regular basis and still go to heaven? Or are we going to just make that verse null as well?

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Again, can we as saved individuals remained saved if we do those things as part of our lifestyle? If you say no, there is no ES, if you say yes, then that verse and several others a lot like it are a lie. IOW there is something amiss, somewhere. Check your math.

ES, don't believe it, and don't teach it, it's just another Easy Street to Heaven illusion for those who prefer to believe it over the truth..

Easy save is anything but. I think that people who believe in easy save, won't lift a finger, have no interest in doing the inner work that gains rewards.

 

[Halbhh]

Not really, none of these definitively affirm that a person was saved in the first place. I gain assurance from the fact that I am not saved by my actions but rather by Christ, that "no one can snatch me out of his hand" and "nothing can separate me from the love of God".

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

We noticed how to fit all together, according to His exact words "dead" and then "alive again" -- 2 possibilities even after being a child of the Kingdom, as above in post #44 and 48.

Indeed the Prodigals are loved, but also they are 'dead' (His word) until they repent and return to the Father, as in the parable, and then if they do, they are "alive again"! Praise God for that!

 

[Kenny'sID]

Easy save is anything but. I think that people who believe in easy save, won't lift a finger, have no interest in doing the inner work that gains rewards.

I agree, and if they are consistently doing other than the bible says on these major sins, that will be the least of their problems.

Or it could be some give to the poor and do some good, with the hope that get them tho heaven, while they engage in the major sins. I guess there are all kinds of possibilities here, but in general, I'd say you are correct.