faroukfarouk
Fading curmudgeon
Romans 8 is a wonderful chapter in relation to this subject; the way it culminates in verses 38 and 39 is truly wondrous and sublime, for the believer.
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Romans 8 is a wonderful chapter in relation to this subject; the way it culminates in verses 38 and 39 is truly wondrous and sublime, for the believer.I haven't had the chance to read the whole thread, but God makes covenants, not contracts.
Best post since the OP.
2 Corinthians 13:5 supports your last few paragraphs.
All that I would add is we have a loving and gracious God.
He does take the bull by the horns of those who are His. That is the paradox we deal with which is not confusing to His will.
Jesus Christ is a lover and pursuer of His own.
We should know His Holiness and live accordingly.
Our pursuit is not alone as He gives us the power to overcome the flesh.
I will admit I am not perfect. If someone here is please chime in. Our pursuit is to be like Him. We need to be inn the same boat with Him heading "true north" and not on a ship heading to the South Pole.
I've been staunch in my presentations here because God is Sovereign in His salvation. I take that as confidence He will keep those who love Him. Those who love Him do what He says. The sheep will trust and obey.
Although the thread is about eternal security, I have presented above what is called the preservation of the sheep. Such does not mean we can take the Holy Spirit into a brothel and be "ok" with Him. It means when we sin we are assured to be convicted of our sin by the indwelling Holy Spirit. If we are not, we should examine ourselves to see if we have Jesus Christ in us.
So thank you for your post as you put a stake in the ground which can now produce more fruitful discussion. You have killed the antinomian straw man so many have rode for pages. Now we can all discuss God's Holiness, His beauty and love and how we as brethren pursue the holy calling. (Philippians 3:14)
God Bless.
We either hear His voice or we don't. It's concrete and monolithic. It's not a sometimes or maybe.
I'm actually presenting a more stringent and concrete model.
Others are making things conditional which Christ did not.
Let's back up the truck on this. There is nothing in the text that says the sheep repents and is thus found. That's a fact.The sheep was found when he repented. To claim that sinners are found and restored to the flock absent repentance is heresy.
You do know Ishmael was just an infant at the time right, the term used by Paul does mean overt persecution but the idea here is Ishmael was a threat to the child of promise. Being the first born Ishmael would have been entitled to the inheritance from Abraham, but God had him sent away. Isaac was born of the spirit, his birth was miraculous. Ishmael was born of the flesh in that he was conceived by Hagar because Sarah and Abraham had trouble believing God's promise. When Abraham heard the promise he laughed, when Sarah overheard the promise she laughed. That's where Isaac got his name, it means 'she laughs'. So much for easy believism.
You don't have to be arrogant.............my friend. You use the word "NO" a lot. Learn to debate civilly.
You said:If the Jews had been told to be born again by Moses, why did they not understand the term when Jesus spoke it? They did the best through could with the partial truth given them. They were saved by their faith once Christ came to man. They couldn't seek the kingdom of God because it wasn't given to them to know. Jesus taught us to seek it we have to be born again. To receive it we are born of fire (Chrism Holy Ghost). Show me where the spirituality of seeking the kingdom of God and the baptism of the Holy Ghost appear in the OT.
1. We as Christians can ignore God's voice on a matter but it doesn't mean necessarily that they are not saved.
2. God knows the condition of the heart. All these things such as not hearing his voice or not believing or not following is when one completely goes awol and changes master.
Man is born in sin and when he becomes saved his allegiance is to Christ. When man decides to leave God and live for Satan his allegiance is back to Satan.
Where? Not being snide, you are a good man Jerry. I keep hearing this and I get hypotheticals. What "if."This has happened time and time again.
How do you know?Now some will say they never were saved. This is true for some that were just professors but not everyone.
The same apostle said those who left us were never part of us. (1 John 2:18-19)1 John 2:24-25 shows the condition to be and stay saved.
God will not make anyone believer or unbeliever do what they don't want to.
We have to cooperate with God in faith and allow him to do the work in us.
18 pages of this thread makes this abundantly clear.But I do not see how you truly agree with what he said, though.
Yet, do you not also believe that a believer will always sin as a part of this life?
How is that not a future admitance to doing evil?
How is that any different than the one sin Adam committed against God?
To admit that one will do evil is wrong.
It is having the wrong mindset about sin.
You will be told that is only for those who cooperate with God and endure to the end. Even though those verses say those who are in Christ will not be separated.Romans 8 is a wonderful chapter in relation to this subject; the way it culminates in verses 38 and 39 is truly wondrous and sublime, for the believer.
I haven't met any sinless Wesleyans or Nazarenes or anyone else for that matter.
Again, Ishmael was an infant, his mom made fun of the second born but that was because she thought her son was the heir. You say no, no what?No. Scripture says,
28 "And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac.
29 But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit." (Galatians 3:28-28) (NLT).
How was Isaac persecuted? Scripture says,
"But Sarah saw Ishmael--the son of Abraham and her Egyptian servant Hagar--making fun of her son, Isaac." (Genesis 21:9) (NLT).
Well, I use the word "no" a lot because I do not want there to be any confusion that we agree. I have said certain things to people in the past before and they think I am agreeing with them (When in reality I am not agreeing with them). Using the word "no" means that they are not correct without having to write out whole entire sentences that I do not agree with them. It is quick and to the point and it is no way means that I am not being civil or polite. Friends can tell others "no" to drinking and driving (repeatedly) but it does not mean they are not being polite or civil. So you are redefining what the word "civil" actually means because you do not like the message I preach from God's Word. Also, there is no emotion behind my words. The only way I can show that I was not being polite would be by insulting you. So lets' not nitpick over words that can be read as being nuetral and let's stick with Scripture please. The word "no" is simply expressing my thoughts that I disagree. You can read more into that if you like, but I am here to discuss God's Word.
Again there is only one soil which produces. Or are you implicating the Good soil can become bad as well?Yup and that requires belief and perseverance unto maturity and fruit/crop. Those that believed for a while do not grow unto maturity but instead fall away because of testing. How does someone who falls away from the faith, fall away from it if he never belonged to it in the first place? That is impossible; yet that is what your logic entails.
You omitted the rest of the verse and there by misrepresent what it says..Sentence. I did finish my sentence in the way I chose to. I will allow you the same privilege. God bless.
Ohh the old “Paul said he struggled with sin so that excuses you from continuing to sin“ line.Before I answer all your numerous questions, maybe you could answer the ones I posted previously which you haven't responded to yet.
What about you, do you live a perfect, sinless life?
What about the apostles and believers through history? Can you give examples of any who lived a sinless life?
Paul who was certainly saved wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit his struggle with the flesh and the Spirit and I think the scriptures show that it is the condition believers deal until we are home with the Lord.
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Romans 7:15-25
Ohh the old “Paul said he struggled with sin so that excuses you from continuing to sin“ line.
Ohh the old “Paul said he struggled with sin so that excuses you from continuing to sin“ line.
Guess what..he only said that in reference to his life BEFORE he was born again .
True, but sin doesn't go away because you are born again.No born again believer is under sins power.
True, but that doesn't mean sin will never confront the believer.No born again believer has to continue to practice sin .
I wonder what the sin is your referring to in your own life.
Yes, a little while, just as a seed planted in shallow soils grows, but does not take deep root, isn't nourished and therefore lives for only _ a little while.The problem with your interpretation is that the verse does not say "believe a little" as you wrote. It plainly reads believe for a while. Believe means believe - if only for a while. Believe in this verse is the exact same word for believe used in Jn 3:16. Pisteuo never refers to unbelievers or only those who believe a little.
Again, Ishmael was an infant, his mom made fun of the second born but that was because she thought her son was the heir.
You said:You say no, no what?
You said:You disagree with what exactly, we are supposed to be doing all things unto edification here.
You said:You didn't invent theology and certainly don't own a monopoly. I think you are careless on these matters which is why I don't like discussing theology with you. These things are very serious, starting off with no because you like correcting people is not healthy intellectually and certainly not spiritually.
Always sin? Every minute? Never sin?
1 John 1
5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
You said:I haven't met any sinless Wesleyans or Nazarenes or anyone else for that matter. Shouldn't we be like Christ?
You said:1 John 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
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