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Since you are providing the same arguments that Pauls opponents in Galatia were, I rest my case.
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Since you are providing the same arguments that Pauls opponents in Galatia were, I rest my case.So you claim the apostles are saying we are free now to worship other gods, vain God’s name, murder and steal? Surely you have read this chapter wrong. The chapter is referring to circumcision and not the commandments of God. I have to run for now, but you provide more details a little later.
So that’s not yoke of bondage?
Sunshinee777, Galatians 5 not talking in reference to the 10 Commandments at all. See, there are different sets of Laws in the Bible.
There is the 10 Commandment set (the Moral Law).
There are the Ceremonial Laws (those are all the laws that had to do with the Sanctuary and that pointed forward to the coming of Jesus....those are the Laws that were all nailed to the Cross when Jesus died for us....Christians don't keep the Ceremonial Laws any longer because they pointed FORWARD to the LAMB and when Jesus (THE LAMB) died for us, that was the end of those Laws.
The Health Laws is the 3rd set of Laws.
The ONLY Laws that we as Christians should no longer keep are the Ceremonial Laws. The 10 Commandments and the Health Laws are just as binding today as the day God gave them.
Take a minute and read Galatians 5 and you will see that it's not speaking about the 10 Commandments or the Health Laws, but rather it's all about circumcision (which was part of the Ceremonial Laws).
Soyeong, I am not familiar with these two terms - "the mishpatim and the chukim." Are they mentioned in the Bible? What are they?
There has to be some misunderstanding somewhere...
because the same Paul who in Romans 3 says we're not under the law, and who also in Romans 3 says:
“No one can ever be made right in God’s sight by doing what his law commands… We are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law… There is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with Himself only by faith.” (vs. 20, 28 ,30)
then finishes the chapter by saying--in no uncertain terms:
"Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.” {Romans 3:31 NASB}
(All translations have Paul making it very clear that faith doesn't do away with the law.)
“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” {Romans 3:31 KJV}
“So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? No! Faith causes us to be what the law truly wants.” {Romans 3:31 NCV}
“Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of Course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.” {Romans 3:31 NLT}
(I think it's obvious that Paul saw what people were going to do--think that he was doing away with the law because of what he said earlier in chapter 3--and met it in verse 31.)
Why would that matter? It is still not a salvation issue for neither Jew or Gentile.
That is possibly the strangest comment I've ever read on this subject. The Law's purpose was to lead us to Christ. No one gets saved by observing the Law. I could not recite the 10 commandments before I got saved.
Romans 2:12-16
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.
I did not need to know the 10 commandments. I'm not sure I could recite them from memory now, apart from the first two.
The question for believers is, are you obeying God in your heart? That's where His will is revealed and His guidance given. And only by the power of the Lord Jesus within can we obey God anyway. God's commandments are for external obedience. The Sermon on the Mount makes it clear that God is looking for much more than that. And external obedience is not enough to save anyone.
Grace is required whether or not there is law. Romans 1 makes that much clear.I never said it would...but you did not answer the question...
Hmmm....I've never heard of those terms, never seen them in the Bible...I guess, like you say, people can categorize the laws any way they want.In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome, so they are not a yoke of bondage. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of God's law that puts us in bondage, while it is the truth that sets us free. The reason why God saved His people out of bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them under bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1), and God's law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45). Likewise, Jesus said his yoke was easy and his burden was light (Matthew 11:28-30).
People are free to categorize God's laws however they want. For example, I could categorize God's laws based on which part of the body is most commonly used to obey/disobey them, such as the law against theft being a hand law, however, the fact that I could categorize God's laws in that manner does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible categorized them in the same manner, so if were to insert my categories back into the Bible in order to create my own doctrine, such as saying that Christians should no longer keep hand laws, then I would making the same error you are making. The problem is that the Bible never lists which laws are moral, ceremonial, or health laws, and never even refers to those as being categories of law.
For example, the laws that people consider to be ceremonial vary widely depending upon whom I ask, such as some people considering everything but the Ten Commandments being ceremonial, however, many of the laws other than the Ten Commandments have nothing in particular to do with ceremony or health, such as the laws against kidnapping or rape. Furthermore, saying that the Ten Commandments are the Moral Law implies that it is moral to disobey everything but the Ten Commandments, however, the Bible makes no attempt to distinguish between some laws as being moral or not, and I see no justification for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God.
In regard to Colossians 2:14, it is not speaking about any laws being nailed to the cross, but about our penalty for transgressing God's law being nailed to the cross and about Jesus dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins. As followers of Christ, we should live in a way that points towards him by obeying the laws that do that. The only way that a law can no longer be in effect is if what it teaches us about Christ's eternal nature is no longer true.
God's laws are generally divided in the categories of mishpatim, chukim, and edot. Mishpatim are laws that govern our relationship with our neighbor, which straightforwardly make sense, which are based on the principle of loving our neighbor as ourselves, and which are often found in common among most civilized societies, such as laws against theft and murder. The chuckim are laws that govern our relationship with God, which don't straightforwardly make sense why God commanded, which the only reason to follow them is that they are God's will, and which almost invite us to ponder what God was teaching us about Himself by giving them, such as the law against mixing wool and linen. Furthermore, the laws where we don't understand why God commanded something are where we have the greatest opportunity to express our faith in God by obeying them. The Edot are intended to remind us of certain events, such as the Sabbath and Passover. None of these categories used by the Bible carry the connotation of some laws being moral while others are not.
Did King David repent of his sin? You might want to keep reading….how long did King David repent?Except no one can keep them. Lord Jesus came that we might have real life, not slavery to a set of rules that we can't obey anyway. Ask King David how much the law helped him when he set eyes on Bathsheba having a bath.
The Sabbath is mention close to 60 times in the New Testament, but should that matter- does God need to repeat Himself for one to obey? In the New Testament it shows that the Sabbath commandment is still be to be kept Luke 56:23, Hebrews 4:9 and shows Jesus going to the church on the Sabbath day as it was His custom Luke 4:16 as well as the disciples Acts 18:4. Yes, the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man was created on the six day Genesis 1:26 and the very next day was the very first Sabbath. Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath was created before sin and the seventh day Sabbath is God’s holy day period Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and God wants us to keep holy the same day that He does. Exodus 20:8. God gives us free will so when He comes again the Sabbath will continue to be His holy day for worship Isaiah 66:23 if people are so opposed to keeping the Sabbath holy now, what makes one think you will want to on the New Earth?The sabbath was made for man - God's wisdom for our needs. The NT does not prescribe a day and hardly mentions the Sabbath. It's been replaced with "The Lord's Day", not the same thing. Everyone needs a day off once a week. It's not always possible, and God knows that. When I was in the military, I worked for 3 weeks straight with 4 hours sleep a night. By the law, I should have been stoned to death. Instead, God let me sleep for 18 hours at the end of the 3 weeks.
Jesus came to fulfilled the Righteous requirements of law so we can have God's Righteousness through Him..
Jesus said to John the Baptist in His baptism..Matthew 3:15.." let it be so now, it is proper for us to do this to fulfilled all righteousness"..
The law (10) does not change our evil hearts is just shows it that we have evil hearts..
But, the Spirit change our evil hearts (sanctification through Faith) but also gives us eternal life...Romans
Maybe you can provide where it says that Jesus is our Sabbath? There is no scripture.I believe the sabbath command is observed by those who rest in Christ. The OT way of observing Sabbath was just a shadow of what was to come. Sabbath was a day off for man and beast but it was a shadow of Gods eternal rest which he entered into after creation. God rested from His works on Sabbath, its final and eternal rest unless I'm mistaken. And our sabbath rest eternal.
Hmmm....I've never heard of those terms, never seen them in the Bible...I guess, like you say, people can categorize the laws any way they want.
Are we reading the same chapter? Acts 15 is clearly talking about Circumcision which is in the law of Moses and not in the Ten Commandments.Since you are providing the same arguments that Pauls opponents in Galatia were, I rest my case.
Hi, The Narrow Way,"If ye love Me, KEEP My Commandments." John 14:15.
The Sabbath is the 4th Commandment, nestled in amongst the other 9. It is the ONLY one of all 10 that uses the word REMEMBER. Do you think it's maybe because God KNEW those who claim to be His followers would FORGET to keep it, so He gave them an extra reminder...and said, "REMEMBER the Sabbath Day to KEEP it Holy."
It all boils down to whether or not we LOVE God. If we LOVE Him, we'll do what He says. If we don't do what He says, it's proof our LOVE is not what it should be.
You missed part of the sentence to make it complete- let me help youHi, The Narrow Way,
Nice to meet you. I don't believe we have interacted before.
Your post sounds good so far: if we love Jesus, keep his commandments.
And here's a commandment, Remember the Sabbath day.
Where I think the issue comes in as I've discussed this with other people is what are the other commandments? I'm especially interested in if you have a list of those other commandments.
Great example of someone doing the will of God and not keeping the letter of the commandment at the same time.Rahab lied about where the spies were - Her actions were commended.
Oh! well where did the other 603 laws come from? God wrote some with His finger and some He spoke. Is His finger anymore sacred than His voice? I believe your theory that because somehow His writing commands on stone does not allow them to change is not scriptural. Paul surely thought they did, in 2Cor 3:6-11 Paul tells us that indeed the 10 commandments, called the ministry of death written and engraven in stones, have been done away, verse 11. KJV All mankind are under the new and better covenant. The old covenant ceased to be for whom it was given (Israel) when Jesus ratified the new covenant with His own blood at Calvary. We are all partakers of the Good News. Thank you Jesus.Bob, I've read the Bible quite a few times, and the ONLY thing handed down to Moses from God on Mount Sinai was the 10 Commandments written with God's own finger on TABLES OF STONE.... (Implying they do not change).
Why are you beating around the bush? Just answer his/her question. If you are correct in your posts then it would seem you could rattle off all the commands we are supposedly to have to keep.You missed part of the sentence to make it complete- let me help you
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
The commandment goes on to to say:
Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Previously you stated you thought we no longer needed to keep the commandments, I am glad you changed you mind about that.
God bless
As we talked about before, where the verses are is a human tradition. Where sentences are broken up is a translator's choice. But no big deal, did you want to talk about the thrust of my post? What those other commandments are?You missed part of the sentence to make it complete- let me help you
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
The commandment goes on to to say:
Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Previously you stated you thought we no longer needed to keep the commandments, I am glad you changed you mind about that.
God bless
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