One of The STRONGEST Arguments for The Sabbath ~

[ozso]

Amen!

Galatians 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

James 2:10 - “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

Some claim James only meant the 10 commandments. But that's not the whole law. Not by a longshot.

 

[The Narrow Way]

I understand but what do you think about Galatians 5:4
And Galatians 5:1

Sunshinee777, Galatians 5 not talking in reference to the 10 Commandments at all. See, there are different sets of Laws in the Bible.

There is the 10 Commandment set (the Moral Law).

There are the Ceremonial Laws (those are all the laws that had to do with the Sanctuary and that pointed forward to the coming of Jesus....those are the Laws that were all nailed to the Cross when Jesus died for us....Christians don't keep the Ceremonial Laws any longer because they pointed FORWARD to the LAMB and when Jesus (THE LAMB) died for us, that was the end of those Laws.

The Health Laws is the 3rd set of Laws.

The ONLY Laws that we as Christians should no longer keep are the Ceremonial Laws. The 10 Commandments and the Health Laws are just as binding today as the day God gave them.

Take a minute and read Galatians 5 and you will see that it's not speaking about the 10 Commandments or the Health Laws, but rather it's all about circumcision (which was part of the Ceremonial Laws).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Selective quoting of Bible verses out of context is how heresies come about. You do what your conscience dictates. If that means going to church on Saturday, that's fine. For you. For me, I'm not under law because I walk in the Spirit. I refuse to let anyone judge me in the matter of food or drink or in anything to do with the sabbath.

As to the day that lord Jesus preached, what other day would have been possible? Of course He preached on the Sabbath. That's when people met together. Pastors do not preach on Monday when no one is there. It's just that rarest of commodities, common sense.

Common sense would be to follow Jesus so why would you choose not to follow Jesus when it comes to the Sabbath? Jesus was at the churches teaching God’s Word on the Sabbath- thats where I want to be. Luke 4:16

There is nothing I posted out of context. What is out of context is trying to make God’s commandments into a covenant of nine, when God wrote a covenant of Ten. Exodus 34:28 and telling us to “forget” the one commandment God told us to “Remember”.

Col 2:14-17 that you reference is not deleting the 4th commandment. If you read it in context and truly understand the meaning, you would understand. Many try to use this as a scapegoat why they disregard one of God’s commandments. Jesus tells us the commandment are eternal and to not break the least of them. Matthew 5:19

 

[Aussie Pete]

Common sense would be to follow Jesus so why would you choose not to follow Jesus when it comes to the Sabbath? Jesus was at the churches teaching God’s Word on the Sabbath- thats where I want to be. Luke 4:16

There is nothing I posted out of context. What is out of context is trying to make God’s commandments into a covenant of nine, when God wrote a covenant of Ten. Exodus 34:28 and telling us to “forget” the one commandment God told us to “Remember”.

Col 2:14-17 that you reference is not deleting the 4th commandment. If you read it in context and truly understand the meaning, you would understand. Many try to use this as a scapegoat why they disregard one of God’s commandments. Jesus tells us the commandment are eternal and to not break the least of them. Matthew 5:19

OK, have you broken any of them? Then you are going to hell, because you have placed yourself under the authority of the law. Me, I depend entirely of the grace of God. My only boast on that day will be what Jesus has done for me through His death and resurrection. I will not be boasting about how carefully I observed the sabbath. I fail at the first commandment. Who can love the Lord God with all that they are? Who does not reserve a little of self? No, the Law was given for us to break, not to keep. It condemns even the most righteous, such as the Pharisees. The rich young ruler obeyed the commandments. Did Lord Jesus say, "good for you, you are on the right path"? No. "Sell all you have and follow Me", Lord Jesus said. You won't find that inscribed on tablets of stone.

 

[Sunshinee777]

Sunshinee777, Galatians 5 not talking in reference to the 10 Commandments at all. See, there are different sets of Laws in the Bible.

There is the 10 Commandment set (the Moral Law).

There are the Ceremonial Laws (those are all the laws that had to do with the Sanctuary and that pointed forward to the coming of Jesus....those are the Laws that were all nailed to the Cross when Jesus died for us....Christians don't keep the Ceremonial Laws any longer because they pointed FORWARD to the LAMB and when Jesus (THE LAMB) died for us, that was the end of those Laws.

The Health Laws is the 3rd set of Laws.

The ONLY Laws that we as Christians should no longer keep are the Ceremonial Laws. The 10 Commandments and the Health Laws are just as binding today as the day God gave them.

Take a minute and read Galatians 5 and you will see that it's not speaking about the 10 Commandments or the Health Laws, but rather it's all about circumcision (which was part of the Ceremonial Laws).

So that’s not yoke of bondage?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

OK, have you broken any of them? Then you are going to hell, because you have placed yourself under the authority of the law. Me, I depend entirely of the grace of God. My only boast on that day will be what Jesus has done for me through His death and resurrection. I will not be boasting about how carefully I observed the sabbath. I fail at the first commandment. Who can love the Lord God with all that they are? Who does not reserve a little of self? No, the Law was given for us to break, not to keep. It condemns even the most righteous, such as the Pharisees. The rich young ruler obeyed the commandments. Did Lord Jesus say, "good for you, you are on the right path"? No. "Sell all you have and follow Me", Lord Jesus said. You won't find that inscribed on tablets of stone.

It seems you do not understand the New Covenant.

God writes His laws in our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33 They are written in our hearts because this is the love of God that we keep His commandments John 14:14, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and they are written in our minds so we do them. James 1:22, Revelations 22:14

When we sin we have an Advocate with Jesus who is faithful and just to forgive us when we repent. True repentance means turning from our sins. We do not want to be caught up in this situation: Hebrews 10:26 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Sin is the transgression of God’s law even in the New Covenant. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 and breaking one is like breaking them all James 2:10-11

We are saved by grace through our faith as it is God’s gift to give or not give. Obeying God is a fruit of our faith.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

What it seems is like people are wanting is to get in heaven by doing the least as possible. The Lord’s Prayer gives us the example we need-

Matthew 6:9
In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Psalms 40:9 I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law is within my heart.”

God has an ark of the covenant on earth and He has one in heaven. We all know what is in the ark of the Covenant. Revelations 11:19

"Sell all you have and follow Me", Lord Jesus said. You won't find that inscribed on tablets of stone.

Actually it is- when money or anything else is placed above God you are breaking commandment #1

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 

[The Narrow Way]

So that’s not yoke of bondage?

No, the Ceremonial Laws was the "yoke of bondage". The 10 Commandments are not. Surely you don't believe that it's bondage to not be allowed to MURDER, STEAL, LIE, COMMIT ADULTERY, SWEAR, etc. Quite the contrary, right? It's a blessing to not do those things, it makes us happy to do right things. The Sabbath is a part of these Laws...not the Ceremonial Laws or the Yoke of Bondage. That is why Jesus Himself said that the Sabbath was made FOR man (Mark 2:27.) It was made for us as a WONDERFFUL BLESSING . It's like having a mini-vacation every 7 days. It's the furthest thing from a YOKE that I can think of

 

[Sunshinee777]

Amen!

Galatians 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

James 2:10 - “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

Do you agree then, that those who have faith in Jesus Christ that he was made a curse on the cross so we can be blessed who believe in Jesus Christ as our saviour? So we are blessed under grace?

I mean, if you still carry that cross isn’t that being cursed as Jesus was on the cross. Those people who carry cross put Jesus onto open shame?
This is my understanding of the scriptures.
And love is the fulfilling of the law.
”Jesus came to fulfill the law”
When we know the law, we know sin. And there is no sin, because Jesus died because of our sins. It is finished.
If you don’t have faith in Jesus, and His work on the cross then what do you have? Im just curious.
And I agree with you Danthemailman

 

[Bob S]

MMXX is so correct. The Law given at Sinai, according to our Jewish brothers, contained 613 different rules for the Israelites to live by. Some WERE civil, some WERE ceremonial and some dealt with morality. All came from God in the covenant for Israel. They WERE for no other nation. That is pretty simple if you read Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus. What is not so simple is how Gentiles conclude they are bound to Jesus words to the Jews in Matt 5:17-18. It is ironic that in those verses Jesus tells the Jews that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the 613 commands given at Sinai until ALL is fulfilled and yet we see these same Gentiles cherry picking the rules they deem necessary and discarding most. These same Gentiles argue that Jesus has of yet to fulfill all He came to do. The same people, when approached with the good news that Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, argue that fulfill does not mean to bring to an end yet they have brought to an end most of the Law. Jesus didn't come to abolish the prophets; He came to fulfill the prophesies. Likewise, Jesus didn't abolish the Law, the Israelites abolished it by not living up to its standards. Jesus came to do what no man has ever done. The Law could not come to an end until all was accomplished. That happened at Calvary. Jesus ratified the new and better covenant with His own blood. No one is living under the laws of the covenant given only to Israel. All mankind is living under the laws of the new covenant. Jesus covenant for all mankind guarantees eternal life if we believe in Him and love others as He loves us, 1Jn 3:24. The covenant given at Sinai to only Israel didn't make that guarantee. In fact, the old covenant wasn't a salvation covenant. Those who tell us the new is the same as the old really should study them.

 

[The Narrow Way]

MMXX is so correct. The Law given at Sinai, according to our Jewish brothers, contained 613 different rules for the Israelites to live by. Some WERE civil, some WERE ceremonial and some dealt with morality. All came from God in the covenant for Israel. They WERE for no other nation. That is pretty simple if you read Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus. What is not so simple is how Gentiles conclude they are bound to Jesus words to the Jews in Matt 5:17-18. It is ironic that in those verses Jesus tells the Jews that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the 613 commands given at Sinai until ALL is fulfilled and yet we see these same Gentiles cherry picking the rules they deem necessary and discarding most. These same Gentiles argue that Jesus has of yet to fulfill all He came to do. The same people, when approached with the good news that Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, argue that fulfill does not mean to bring to an end yet they have brought to an end most of the Law. Jesus didn't come to abolish the prophets; He came to fulfill the prophesies. Likewise, Jesus didn't abolish the Law, the Israelites abolished it by not living up to its standards. Jesus came to do what no man has ever done. The Law could not come to an end until all was accomplished. That happened at Calvary. Jesus ratified the new and better covenant with His own blood. No one is living under the laws of the covenant given only to Israel. All mankind is living under the laws of the new covenant. Jesus covenant for all mankind guarantees eternal life if we believe in Him and love others as He loves us, 1Jn 3:24. The covenant given at Sinai to only Israel didn't make that guarantee. In fact, the old covenant wasn't a salvation covenant. Those who tell us the new is the same as the old really should study them.

Bob, I have

MMXX is so correct. The Law given at Sinai, according to our Jewish brothers, contained 613 different rules for the Israelites to live by. Some WERE civil, some WERE ceremonial and some dealt with morality. All came from God in the covenant for Israel. They WERE for no other nation. That is pretty simple if you read Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus. What is not so simple is how Gentiles conclude they are bound to Jesus words to the Jews in Matt 5:17-18. It is ironic that in those verses Jesus tells the Jews that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the 613 commands given at Sinai until ALL is fulfilled and yet we see these same Gentiles cherry picking the rules they deem necessary and discarding most. These same Gentiles argue that Jesus has of yet to fulfill all He came to do. The same people, when approached with the good news that Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, argue that fulfill does not mean to bring to an end yet they have brought to an end most of the Law. Jesus didn't come to abolish the prophets; He came to fulfill the prophesies. Likewise, Jesus didn't abolish the Law, the Israelites abolished it by not living up to its standards. Jesus came to do what no man has ever done. The Law could not come to an end until all was accomplished. That happened at Calvary. Jesus ratified the new and better covenant with His own blood. No one is living under the laws of the covenant given only to Israel. All mankind is living under the laws of the new covenant. Jesus covenant for all mankind guarantees eternal life if we believe in Him and love others as He loves us, 1Jn 3:24. The covenant given at Sinai to only Israel didn't make that guarantee. In fact, the old covenant wasn't a salvation covenant. Those who tell us the new is the same as the old really should study them.

Bob, I've read the Bible quite a few times, and the ONLY thing handed down to Moses from God on Mount Sinai was the 10 Commandments written with God's own finger on TABLES OF STONE.... (Implying they do not change).

 

[Danthemailman]

Do you agree then, that those who have faith in Jesus Christ that he was made a curse on the cross so we can be blessed who believe in Jesus Christ as our saviour? So we are blessed under grace?

I mean, if you still carry that cross isn’t that being cursed as Jesus was on the cross. Those people who carry cross put Jesus onto open shame?
This is my understanding of the scriptures.
And love is the fulfilling of the law.
”Jesus came to fulfill the law”
When we know the law, we know sin. And there is no sin, because Jesus died because of our sins. It is finished.
If you don’t have faith in Jesus, and His work on the cross then what do you have? Im just curious.
And I agree with you Danthemailman

Galatians 3:13 - Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” ).

Love certainly is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

God did not command to keep every day holy, but rather He commanded to keep the 7th day holy, so we should trust in what God commanded. A day that is holy is set apart and in order for there to be a day that is set apart, there also needs to be a day that it is set apart from, so to treat every day as being the same is to treat none of them as being holy. If we did on every day what God wants us to do on the Sabbath, then we would do no work, but God also wants us to work. God has given instructions in Leviticus for how to have a holy behavior. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21), sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), and God's law says to keep the 7th day holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so part of the content of the gift of our salvation is Jesus saving us from not keeping the 7th day holy. Holiness is one of the weightier matters and keeping the Sabbath holy in an aspect of that.



The topic of Romans 14 stated in the first verse is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, so it is in regard to issues where God has given no command. For example, God has given no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century, and people who were esteeming certain days for fasting as a matter of opinion were passing judgement on those who did not, and were in turn being resented, so it was exactly this sort of judging each other over opinions that Paul was addressing in this chapter. On the other hand, God has commanded His people to keep the 7th day holy, so whether or not someone does that is not a disputable matter of opinion, but a matter of obedience to God. Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit idolatry, adultery, theft, murder, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God's other commands as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion. The Sabbath was not even mentioned once in Romans 14, precisely because it had nothing to do with the topic Paul was discussing, so we should be careful not to insert the commands of God into what was only said against following the opinions of man.

If this is so, ( remember I said there are weightier matters? ....Christs own words if I may add) then why did Jesus Christ of Nazareth directly disobey the punishment for adultry?
Leviticus 20
10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

He challenged anyone to cast the first stone, ( the adulteress woman spoken of in John 8. ) This is a direct violation to God's law even before the New Covenant replaced the Old. Could it be Jesus Christ of Nazareth was telling them the law will one day be written in their hearts ? Or possibly, practicing such things will no longer be needed? Jesus Christ of Nazareth did not condemn her.
We can not point to one law and ignore the rest. There are 613 laws if one chooses to be under it.

 

[Soyeong]

It all depends on how religious you are and how much of a Pharisee. Also, how much you value Jesus' teaching and the New Testament. I live in the blessing of the new covenant, not under the weight of stone tablets. I found that you cannot fellowship with a stone. My life is Christ. I am led by the Spirit. Sabbatarians have no idea what the New Covenant is about. And since you place yourselves under the law, you are judged by the law. Good luck with that. I prefer God's mercy and grace. The Love of God is shed abroad in my heart by the Holy Spirit. I obey the Lord Jesus. I drove to a meeting this afternoon. Shock horror. I worked on Sunday. I'm glad there are no Sabbatarians around. I would be stoned to death.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to obey the Mosaic Law, including keeping the 7th day holy, so he was much more religious and zealous for keeping it than the Pharisees were. He never criticized the Pharisees for obeying the Mosaic Law, but he did criticize them for not obeying it or for not obeying it correctly, so his purpose in criticizing them was not to get them to stop obeying what God commanded them to do, but in order to call them to a fuller obedience to it. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith, and in Mark 7:6-9, he criticized them for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions. In other words, his problem with the Pharisees was not that they were too religious, but that they were not religious enough.

In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law is how his audience knew what sin is, so the sum of everything that Jesus taught in the NT by word and by example was to obey the Mosaic Law, which means that the degree to which you obey the Mosaic Law is the degree to which you value what he taught in the NT. Jesus did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather the New Covenant was given for a time when the Israelites would return to obedience to the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). Changing the medium upon which God's law is written from stone to our hearts so that we will obey it does not change the content of what it instructs us to do. The Spirit also has the role of leading us to obey the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law.

The Mosaic Law is how the Israelites knew what sin is and how we know what sin is (1 John 3:4), and we are obligated to refrain from what God has revealed to be sin through His law regardless of whether or not someone considers themselves have been given God's gift of getting to be under it. You should consider being judged by the law to be far preferable than to perish apart from it. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is what it means to be under grace and mercy, while wanting to not be under it is rejecting God's grace and mercy.

All of the commandments that God has given were specifically chosen in order to teach us how to love Him, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that associate our love for God with our obedience to Him. For example, in John 14:23-24, Jesus said that anyone obey loves him will obey his teachings, anyone who does not love him will not obey his teachings, and his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so anyone who refuses to come under what the Father has taught does not love Jesus, especially when everything that the Father has taught was specifically taught for the purpose of teaching us how to love Jesus.

The gospels are simply a record of what Jesus did and said. They were written after the epistles. Legalists no doubt would remove the letter to the Galatians and Colossians from the Bible. Sorry, they are there, like it or not.

It is not being a legalist to think that followers of God should follow what God has
command, but rather it is a sin not to. There is no need to remove the letters of Galatians and Colossians from the Bible, but rather there is only the need not to interpret those letters as speaking against obeying God's word.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

"If ye love Me, KEEP My Commandments." John 14:15.

The Sabbath is the 4th Commandment, nestled in amongst the other 9. It is the ONLY one of all 10 that uses the word REMEMBER. Do you think it's maybe because God KNEW those who claim to be His followers would FORGET to keep it, so He gave them an extra reminder...and said, "REMEMBER the Sabbath Day to KEEP it Holy."

It all boils down to whether or not we LOVE God. If we LOVE Him, we'll do what He says. If we don't do what He says, it's proof our LOVE is not what it should be.

Acts of the Apostles 15
22 ¶ Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment (Acts 15:24)

I've noticed in discussions of this nature, the first letter sent by the apostles in Jerusalem is quite often overlooked. The item being discussed if the new gentile believers needed to be 1) circumcised and 2) keep the law. The apostles said on both items that they have given no such commandment.

The following was provided for application:

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:28-29)

This is what the apostles taught, based on the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The sabbath obligation is generally an extension of it since it is related to "keeping the law" of which no such commandment was given by the apostles.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

That is regarding fasting...not the Sabbath day

Ok but it covers more than fasting. Here is other scripture talking about the same thing.
Colossians 2
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[Soyeong]

Are you under the law or under grace?
Did you fall from grace?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 6:4-8

Jesus was made a curse, so we might be blessed.
Are you now making you a curse by carrying a cross? Are putting Jesus into open shame? Did He do the work, not you?
Just something to think about for all who are focused on law.

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and this is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from grace. Furthermore, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by making known to him His ways that he might know Him, and Israel too, and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others, so again this is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from grace. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, not in order to bring about our fall from grace. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God gracious teaching us to obey His laws for how to do these things is again what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from grace. In Jude 1:4, the ungodly pervert God's grace into a license for immorality.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to follow the Mosaic Law by word and by example, and Paul's problem in Galatians should not be interpreted as being with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ, but rather his problem was with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with the law of faith, so works of the law are the law of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so the Mosaic Law is the law of faith, which he directly contrasted with works of the law.

In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God, so it is not obedience to God's law that causes those who have become partakers of the Spirit to fall away, but just the opposite.

In Deuteronomy 28:1-14, it lists the blessing of living in obedience to the Mosaic Law while verses 15-68 list the curse of living in disobedience to it, so being set free from the curse of living in disobedience to it is being set free to enjoy the blessing of living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it means to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

 

[Soyeong]

Galatians 3:13 - Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” ).

In Deuteronomy 28:1-14, it lists the blessing of living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, while verse 15-68 list the curse of living in disobedience to it, so being redeemed from the curse of the law is being set free to enjoy the blessing of the law.

Love certainly is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Love is the fulfillment of the law because all of the laws that God chose to give were specifically given to teach us how to love Him and our neighbor. For example, if we love God, our neighbor, and ourselves, then we will not commit adultery, murder, theft, bear false witness, covet, and so forth for all of the other laws that God has given. Likewise, obedience to the command to help the poor is part of what it means to obey the command to love our neighbor, so if someone's obedience to the command to love our neighbor is not inclusive of obedience to the command to help the poor, then they are not treating the command to love our neighbor as being the fulfillment of the command to help the poor and they would have an incompelte understanding of what it means to love.

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge, so they failed to attain righteousness because the pursued the law as though righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith, for Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, and in regard to what we are submitting to obey when we confess that Jesus is Lord, so nothing in the either the surrounding or the broader context has anything to do with Jesus being the end point of the law, but just the opposite.

Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God and those who continue to practice sin in transgression of it have neither seen nor known Christ, so that combined with Galatians 3:26 means that those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law also do not have faith in Christ. Likewise, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obedience to him. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so the law was given to teach us how to live as sons of God through faith in Christ, and that is why it brings us to him.

 

[Soyeong]

If this is so, ( remember I said there are weightier matters? ....Christs own words if I may add) then why did Jesus Christ of Nazareth directly disobey the punishment for adultry?
Leviticus 20
10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

He challenged anyone to cast the first stone, ( the adulteress woman spoken of in John 8. ) This is a direct violation to God's law even before the New Covenant replaced the Old. Could it be Jesus Christ of Nazareth was telling them the law will one day be written in their hearts ? Or possibly, practicing such things will no longer be needed? Jesus Christ of Nazareth did not condemn her.
We can not point to one law and ignore the rest. There are 613 laws if one chooses to be under it.

Christ is one with the Father, so he should not be interpreted as being in disagreement with what the Father has commanded, but rather John 8 is an example of him acting in accordance with what the Mosaic Law instructs. There was no judge to pronounce a sentence (Deuteronomy 19:17-21), there was no man accused (Leviticus 20:10), he didn't have any witnesses to examine (Numbers 35:30, Deuteronomy 19:15), and he did not have a confession, so if he had condemned her, then he would have acted in violation of the Mosaic Law. Just a few verses later Jesus said that he judged no one (John 8:15) and he also said that he came not to judge (John 12:47), so he did not exercise authority as a magistrate and did not condemn her, but he did recognize her action as sin, and told her to go and sin no more.

In Galatians 4:4, Jesus was born under the law, so he was obligated to obey, and he was sinless, so he never broke it, so again John 8 should not be interpreted as Jesus acting against it and thereby sinning. The New Covenant was not established until Christ's death, so everything that he taught during his ministry was how to live as someone who is under the Mosaic Covenant, and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). God is sovereign, so we are obligated to obey His law and to refrain from sin regardless of whether or not we consider ourselves to be under it.

Ok but it covers more than fasting. Here is other scripture talking about the same thing.
Colossians 2
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

If we look at Colossians 2:16 by itself, then it is ambiguous in regard to two possible situations:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's feasts, they were being judged by Jews because they were not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging not to let any man judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's feasts, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them for keeping them.

If we look at the context of what Paul described of the views of the people who were judging them, then it becomes clear that the 2nd situation is the case in that they were being judged by pagans, such as saying in Colossians 2:20-23 that they were promoting human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity of the body, which is against celebrating God's holy days. We must obey God rather than man, so we should be careful not to mistake what was only said against obeying the teaching of men as being against obeying the commands of God, especially when the point that Paul was making was that we should let anyone prevent us from obeying the commands of God.

 

[Soyeong]

If one wants to live under the law, they first have to know all 613 commandments of it . And then they have to obey all of it. Obeying 70, 80, 90% of those hundreds of commandments isn't good enough. One can remember the sabbath and keep it as holy as possible, and it will avail them not, because if they're going to live by the law, they have to live by the whole entire complete very long and complicated law. Seems some people think if they take Saturday off from work and attend a 90 minute church service they have kept the law. But they have only kept a fraction of the law. It's not anywhere near that easy to live under the law.

Even when the law was first given to Moses, there was not a single person who was required to obey 100% of the laws, and not even Jesus obeyed the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth. Some laws for only for the King, the High Priest, priests, judges, men, women, children, those who are married, those who are widowed, those who have servants, those who have crops, those who have animals, those who have tzaraat, those who are living in the land, and those who are strangers living among them, while others were given everyone, so while there are illegitimate reasons for someone picking and choosing which laws to follow, there are also legitimate reasons for not following certain laws. For example, the Israelites were given a number of laws with the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, and when the Israelites were in exile in Babylon, the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which required them to have access to the temple, which had been destroyed. So there can be conditions where someone is not required to obey certain laws, though we should nevertheless still be faithful to obey as much as we can.

However, God is sovereign, so we are all under His law and are obligated to refrain from sin regardless of whether or not we want to refrain from sin. God's covenants inform us of our obligations, but they are not what creates our obligation to obey God's laws because we would still be obligated to obey God even if God had never made any covenants with man.

If only keeping 10 to 20 or 50 or 100 or 250 commandments was enough to be saved by keeping the law, but it's not. It's all or nothing.

Our justification can't be earned as a wage even if someone managed to live in sinless obedience to it (Romans 4:4-5), so the was never the goal of why we should obey the law.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Christ is one with the Father, so he should not be interpreted as being in disagreement with what the Father has commanded, but rather John 8 is an example of him acting in accordance with what the Mosaic Law instructs. There was no judge to pronounce a sentence (Deuteronomy 19:17-21), there was no man accused (Leviticus 20:10), he didn't have any witnesses to examine (Numbers 35:30, Deuteronomy 19:15), and he did not have a confession, so if he had condemned her, then he would have acted in violation of the Mosaic Law. Just a few verses later Jesus said that he judged no one (John 8:15) and he also said that he came not to judge (John 12:47), so he did not exercise authority as a magistrate and did not condemn her, but he did recognize her action as sin, and told her to go and sin no more.

In Galatians 4:4, Jesus was born under the law, so he was obligated to obey, and he was sinless, so he never broke it, so again John 8 should not be interpreted as Jesus acting against it and thereby sinning. The New Covenant was not established until Christ's death, so everything that he taught during his ministry was how to live as someone who is under the Mosaic Covenant, and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). God is sovereign, so we are obligated to obey His law and to refrain from sin regardless of whether or not we consider ourselves to be under it.



If we look at Colossians 2:16 by itself, then it is ambiguous in regard to two possible situations:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's feasts, they were being judged by Jews because they were not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging not to let any man judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's feasts, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them for keeping them.

If we look at the context of what Paul described of the views of the people who were judging them, then it becomes clear that the 2nd situation is the case in that they were being judged by pagans, such as saying in Colossians 2:20-23 that they were promoting human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity of the body, which is against celebrating God's holy days. We must obey God rather than man, so we should be careful not to mistake what was only said against obeying the teaching of men as being against obeying the commands of God, especially when the point that Paul was making was that we should let anyone prevent us from obeying the commands of God.

Ok, not matter what I present we do not see eye to eye. Thanks for engaging !