One Jesus, two testimonies?

[tulc]

But your testimony is about sex and sexaul attraction not the love Jesus refered to. Its ok as long as you leave out Jesus or cite where Jesus countenanced same-sex unions

Uhmmm no, it's not about that at all. Are you a Christian because you want to sleep with the opposite sex, or because of what Jesus has done in your life? You all seem more interested in the Profs love life then she is.
tulc(just back from driving all over)

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear tulc,

No I am a Christian because I have faith in Jesus Christ and seek to follow Him and His teaching, which means when it comes to sex, God’s purpose is for sex within a faithful man/woman marriage. The issue here is Ohioprof doesn’t believe that. Dont you believe this either?

 

[tulc]

No I am a Christian because I have faith in Jesus Christ and seek to follow Him and His teaching,

I agree.

which means when it comes to sex, God’s purpose is for sex within a faithful man/woman marriage.

I believe the faithful part, yes. The man/woman part is where I think it gets tricky.

The issue here is Ohioprof doesn’t believe that.

Really? I thought the issue was you feeling the urge to decide who is or isn't a Christian based on what you believe?

Dont you believe this either?

Are we discussing me now? If we are then I believe I'll have another cup of coffee!
tulc(hold that belief dear to his heart)

 

[MercyBurst]

Natural healthy love is love that is respectful and caring toward another.

I am sorry if my personal testimony makes you feel like you want to vomit, but I am not going to stop speaking the truth as I understand it. Calling on folks to love our neighbor, which is what Jesus said, should not cause anyone to vomit. If it does, I suspect you have a stomach flu and should probably get it checked out.

yeah I do have a touch of a bug.

I am amazed that this ex-gay man's testimony had absolutely no effect on you whatsoever. I'm thinking to myself how uncaring this is.

You attribute my reaction to the flu virus. That just sounds so callous from you.

As long as my Brother is hurting I will stand by him, yet you will not join me. You just ignore the whole thing and pretend it doesn't exist. I'm sorry folks but I just can not call this Christian love.

 

[MercyBurst]

Testimony from a struggling ex-gay:

Gay sex is an exercise in sado-masochism. In my own fantasies, the things I imagine are ways of conquering other men, of humiliating them, to bring them down to size, so that they are broken, docile and no longer a threat to me, so I don't feel intimidated by them any
more. This is sadistic and Not born of love for the other man. Conversely, on the personal side, my involvement is for my own personal humiliation and punishment for not measuring up to "man" status, whatever that is. This is masochism.


Now, here's the twist. When Jesus said to love our neighbors as ourselves, He was assumingthat we actually do love ourselves. To do unto to others the carnal things we desire to be done to ourselves is Not what He intended, because that does not start from love or show love. So, evidently, if I engage in such behavior, I am not loving myself at all. So how could I be loving my neighbor? I'm not. Each of us is busy destroying (Satanic) the masculine psyche of both himself and the other. Satan came to kill, steal, and destroy.

Does anyone disagree with this man seeing a licensed therapist for his homosexual issues?

 

[Brieuse]

Testimony from a struggling ex-gay:





Does anyone disagree with this man seeing a licensed therapist for his homosexual issues?

Agreed that that person must see a psychologist. Not one of the quacks at an ex-gay recovery program, though.

The relationship that poor man desires is very harmful.

 

[MercyBurst]

Agreed that that person must see a psychologist. Not one of the quacks at an ex-gay recovery program, though.

The relationship that poor man desires is very harmful.

yes indeed, and he's not the only one.

Once his issues are dealt with, there is really no reason for this man to be in same-sex relationships.

 

[Brieuse]

My witness in my life is contrary to that. There is no "evil" gay spirit. There are just gay people, people who are no more or less sinners than anyone else. Being gay in itself is not a sin; it's simply how God made some people.

You appear not to want to listen to ideas that contradict what you already believe, and that's up to you. I will, however, continue to speak the truth as I understand it, whether you agree with me or not. My personal witness matters, whether you think it does or not.

I agree so much. Albeit we differ regarding certain aspects of the Gospel, essentially your relationship with God is the most important.

We're teaching Satan's work I see, according to some here. Well, let them think that, I know where I stand with God. And so do hundreds of thousands of ex-ex gays. Christians who just so happen to be homosexual, that have found peace with God, without succumbing to the lies that ex-gay ministries like to propogate.

 

[MercyBurst]

I agree so much. Albeit we differ regarding certain aspects of the Gospel, essentially your relationship with God is the most important.

We're teaching Satan's work I see, according to some here. Well, let them think that, I know where I stand with God. And so do hundreds of thousands of ex-ex gays. Christians who just so happen to be homosexual, that have found peace with God, without succumbing to the lies that ex-gay ministries like to propogate.

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40384665&postcount=175

[4.0] The spirit of same-sex sex kills the spiritual life of some believers, and blesses the spiritual life of others, but this can not come from the spirit of Christ, otherwise Christ Himself is a contradiction.

 

[GenemZ]

My witness in my life is contrary to that. There is no "evil" gay spirit. There are just gay people, people who are no more or less sinners than anyone else. Being gay in itself is not a sin; it's simply how God made some people.

God made you - your soul.

Adam made you gay when he fell....

God did not make you gay. Adam did when he rejected God's will.

Romans 5:12 (New International Version)
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."



​

God is for diversity. Not everyone's sin nature heads in the same direction in life! That way we are able to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling.


Adam is the root of all defective (sinful) behavior found in all men. Not God. He is not the cause of you being gay.


You make God out to be the author of sin. God did not make you gay. God created your soul, not your sin nature. God created your volition. God did not create which way you would choose in life. Adam's choice made us all to be sinners from birth. How we find ourselves to be sinners is as varied as their are personalities.

Jesus died FOR ALL.

Not all will place their trust in the Christ. They will recreate "a christ" as a substitute, so they can live as they please, and appease their conscious in claiming righteousness of their own making.

The Bible warns of such types.

2 Timothy 3:5 (New International Version)
"...having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."



​

God did not make you that way. Adam did. I was born a sinner not because God made me to be a sinner. I was born a sinner because when Adam fell, he passed down the defective nature by means of procreation. That is why Mary's child could not have a human father and be sinless. For the man passes down the sin nature. It all started with Adam.


Too much to think about at once? Or, will you just ignore it as you usually do by saying you do not believe in the Bible?

Yet? You like to claim God made you as you are. Self contradictory when you look at it from someone who does not believe in the God of the Bible.... For, she does not believe the Bible is God's Word. So? How can you claim God made you that way? You have chapter and verse to back up what you wish to believe?


What you claim about yourself is impossible to justify. For you reject the source required for its justification.



In Christ, GeneZ




.



​

 

[Floatingaxe]

Dear Floatingaxe,
Yes! And in addition as the gay affirmers are promoting a sin which we are saved from they are undermining the gospel of salvation.
Yes, but there are Christians who have same-sex attraction who believe the Bible that same-sex sex is sin, so we must have homosexuals who are Christians and homosexuals who call themsleves Christians but who dont believe the Bible. [/color][/size][/font][/b]

Homosexuals are those who revel in the practice. Those who do not, are not.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I promote respect for the inherent worth and dignity of all people, including gay people like myself. There are no "lost," according to my beliefs, because all are saved. We do live on this earth....that is what we have. To sacrifice one's life for an imagined reward in heaven would be unfortunate, I think.

Once again, you oppose Jesus, whom you say you are trying to follow:

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost.

There are always the lost among us. We are not all saved. Heaven is our ultimate reward, and a worthy reward at that!

 

[DesignerNate]

While I strongly agree that their should be one coherent message of Christ, I don't think its so easy to simply separate the two view points and call one righteous and one sinful. Plus, does the two opposing viewpoints ultimately reference to two opposing viewpoints of Christ? While I agree that God is in the business of miracles, and Satan wants to hold you prisoner and keep you the same. The fact remains that Jesus didn't address homosexuality. Now of course that doesn't really end the fact that It can still be considered sinful after all it is talked about in the new testament and just because Jesus didn't talk about it doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed.

But the problem is that I don't see the two viewpoints terribly going against each other. Both viewpoints want to embrace and love God first and foremost. The major difference is with what is regarded as sinful. While I'm not even sure what is the true answer, I struggle with the fact that it is so easy to just proclaim it as sinful, while in the same breath you can ignore what Leviticus said about women and slavery. Now I understand that two Men can't procreate (nor two women), but how is this different from someone that is infertile? I know God says a lot of good things about marriage being between a man and a women and if there was an argument against homosexuality, i would have to say that that one would be the strongest one.

The problem i think most gay people face is that it isn't a desire that seems to point to "wrong". For the desire is ultimately to find love and happiness in a romantic relationship with the same sex. See the desire for a mate of one's own sex feels just as strong as a heterosexual might feel about the opposite sex, so how can you so easily declare one righteous and one sinful? I have spent years trying to change the desires I have towards men. Now who knows, I could be doing it wrong, or not having enough faith, but ultimately the sense that I feel is that I'm tired of trying to change who I am, I'm tired of trying to force a desire that just isn't there (attraction for women). See from my viewpoint it seems that it could be just as harmful to continue to live a false dream that some day I will be heterosexual, than just to embrace myself for who I am and search for a companion that is the same sex.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I simply do not believe that. I am, as I have said, a Universalist Christian. I do not believe that Jesus ever said that salvation is through him. That's a statement attributed to Jesus in the Bible that is probably not something he said.

It's principally the Gospel of John that attributes variouos "I" statements to Jesus. The three synoptic Gospels mostly do not attribute such statements to Jesus. According to the Jesus Seminar and other Bible scholars, Jesus probably did not make statements about himself as the Messiah or the way to salvation. Much of what is attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of John was invented by a particular group of followers of Jesus.

Anyhow, my Christian beliefs are different from yours, but they are Christian beliefs.

This is anti-Christian propaganda.

 

[GenemZ]

While I agree that God is in the business of miracles, and Satan wants to hold you prisoner and keep you the same. The fact remains that Jesus didn't address homosexuality.

People who use that argument always fail to see the context in which Jesus spoke.

He was not speaking in a pagan nation where homosexuality was commonly practiced. He was speaking to Jews in a nation where homosexuality was a capitol offense.

Jews did not approve of homosexuality. It was viewed as highly loathsome to them. That is one of the reasons they looked down upon the Goyim (Gentiles) so strongly. That is one of the reasons they became so self righteous in the presence of a Goyim. Gentiles were seen as low lifes by the Jews. Seen as amoral.


So? For Jesus to speak out against homosexuality in the nation of Israel, to Jews?

It would be like President Bush getting on TV and telling everyone how to sanitize themselves after using the toilet. We would find it ludicrous and offensive.

And, for the record?

Jesus never spoke out against bestiality.

Using your line of logic? What would that indicate?




In Christ, GeneZ

 

[DesignerNate]

People who use that argument always fail to see the context in which Jesus spoke.

He was not speaking in a pagan nation where homosexuality was commonly practiced. He was speaking to Jews in a nation where homosexuality was a capitol offense.

Jews did not approve of homosexuality. It was viewed as highly loathsome to them. That is one of the reasons they looked down upon the Goyim (Gentiles) so strongly. That is one of the reasons they became so self righteous in the presence of a Goyim. Gentiles were seen as low lifes by the Jews. Seen as amoral.


So? For Jesus to speak out against homosexuality in the nation of Israel, to Jews?

It would be like President Bush getting on TV and telling everyone how to sanitize themselves after using the toilet. We would find it ludicrous and offensive.

And, for the record?

Jesus never spoke out against bestiality.

Using your line of logic? What would that indicate?




In Christ, GeneZ

My Full statement about that was this:
"The fact remains that Jesus didn't address homosexuality. Now of course that doesn't really end the fact that It can still be considered sinful after all it is talked about in the new testament and just because Jesus didn't talk about it doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed."

I said that even though Jesus didn't address it doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered, because their are still parallels from the new testament to the old testament. Also even with your context, the Jewish nation didn't practice homosexuality as well as most things that were outlined in Leviticus. I understand that. The problem comes when we as christians state things like, well we don't have to follow that tradition because Christ payed that cost. Also I'm not really convinced of either way at this point, you could be very right. But I thought I should mention that I did address that just because Jesus doesn't talk about it, doesn't mean we shouldn't consider it.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Being gay in itself is not a sin; it's simply how God made some people.

Where do you get that belief from? Did God create a homosexual marriage? How does that work? Who is husband and who is wife? How do these folk become fruitful and multiply?

How do people think they are created homosexual by God and yet God Himself says to commit a homosexual act is abominable? God is not two-faced. He is no liar. He doesn't play practical jokes, creating one in a way that is contrary to His own commands! He would never make a person sinful. We are sinful all on our own.

You need a definite rethink of your faith, which is not in the God of Scripture. What I see in actuality is what is prevalent today: designer faith, the me-god, believe-as-you-go religiosity, which has no power but the power of Satan behind it.

 

[Brieuse]

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40384665&postcount=175

[4.0] The spirit of same-sex sex kills the spiritual life of some believers, and blesses the spiritual life of others, but this can not come from the spirit of Christ, otherwise Christ Himself is a contradiction.

Those so-called ex-gays will soon find out for themselves I pray.

 

[Brieuse]

Homosexuals are those who revel in the practice. Those who do not, are not.

rubbish

 

[Floatingaxe]

Natural healthy love is love that is respectful and caring toward another.

I am sorry if my personal testimony makes you feel like you want to vomit, but I am not going to stop speaking the truth as I understand it. Calling on folks to love our neighbor, which is what Jesus said, should not cause anyone to vomit. If it does, I suspect you have a stomach flu and should probably get it checked out.

Jesus speaks of vomiting up those who live lukewarm spiritual lives. He is sickened by those who are not effective in the world, not doing His will and not living righteously.

Those who live in apostasy will reap the consequences. They will be spewed.