One Jesus, two testimonies?

[Brieuse]

Another derogatory thread.

Homosexuality is not an addiction. It is a normal attraction to a person of the same sex.

I can't speak for all of us "sodomites", but I have never claimed "Their testimony requires no personal change in their lives", that is a deliberate act of deceit on behalf of the OP. To use the word "sodomites/sodomy" is a deliberate attempt of the OP to insult us as he is clearly aware of the derogatory nature of the word.

"we have ex-gays that give us a very disturbing testimony regarding same-sex-sodomy addictions that were destroying them spiritually" - with regards to that I can say with confidence and support from true verifiable sources that some do "change", however 99% don't. This so-called ex gay ministry is a sad scam. Those that propogate the lies that change is required will have to answer to God. There are many testimonies of ex-ex gays that refute this so-called "destroying them spiritually", and who are closer to God than ever before and happier with themselves than ever before.

"God is in the business of doing miracles" - I agree totally, however it's God's decision which miracles to perform and I believe that there is no motive for Him to "change" us, as we are His design.

 

[lincolngreen50]

I am gay, and I am not addicted to sex. I don't even have sex. To compare being gay with being an alcoholic or a drug addict is simply to disparage gay people out of your own prejudice. If you don't like gay people, then leave us alone, and please stop slandering us.

One dosn`t have to have the physical sex act to commit a sin in the eyes of God.
If one says they are Homosexual but choose to be celibrate the fact that they prefer a same sex intimate relationship is still a Sin in the eyes of God.
Kissing someone as well as touching someone in inappropriate places with someone of the same sex is regarded as sexual act and is regarded as sin in the eyes of God.
One can say that they do not believe in God but there are Homosexuals who believe that they follow Christ.
These people need to know that they will be lost in Christ and not regarded as followers of Christ untill they repent,ask God`s forgiveness and sin no more.

 

[MercyBurst]

Another derogatory thread. Homosexuality is not an addiction. It is a normal attraction to a person of the same sex.

But we have a large group of ex-gay Christians that disagree with you Brieuse. Don't they have a right to live their lives for Jesus Christ without your contradictions? Here is a discussion forum where they are in recovery:

Yahoo Group ex-Gay Recovery

You are not allowed to debate there because there is no debate -- these people are hurting. Read it for yourself.

I can't speak for all of us "sodomites", but I have never claimed " their testimony requires no personal change in their lives" , that is a deliberate act of deceit on behalf of the OP. To use the word "sodomites/sodomy" is a deliberate attempt of the OP to insult us as he is clearly aware of the derogatory nature of the word.

I've heard so many times from gays on this forum, that repentance is not required (I speak of the kind of repentance that most Christians understand). I'm really very tired of debating the "gay version" of it, and will not continue in weasel word discussions with you or anyone else regarding repentance.

The choice of words "same-sex-sodomy" is strong, but the words "gay", 'homosexual", "lesbian", and "bI-sexual" fail to separate the ACT from the PERSON. I suggest you come up with a better word that eliminates this confusion. I have tried very hard to come up with a better word, and unfortunately I am left with "same-sex-sodomy" as the most accurate terminology.


This thread is about the ACT not the PERSON. Help me come up with words that make this CLEAR and VERY IMPORTANT distinction. Otherwise we have no basis for a meaningful dialogue. Perhaps we can't have a meaningful dialogue anyway. Gay activists deliberately jam communication for their own political gain.

"we have ex-gays that give us a very disturbing testimony regarding same-sex-sodomy addictions that were destroying them spiritually" - with regards to that I can say with confidence and support from true verifiable sources that some do "change", however 99% don't.

But their testimony doesn't belong to you -- it's between them and God. I could stand here and tell you that you can't live for God as a homosexual (which I do happen to believe, by the way), and I'd be doing the very same thing you are doing regarding the ex-gays. God determines their degree of success not you.

Your claim that 99% don't work still leaves the 1% that does work. One example is all it takes to prove you're argument wrong, and I don't believe God has two different expecations on moral conduct.

This so-called ex gay ministry is a sad scam. Those that propogate the lies that change is required will have to answer to God.

Their personal sacrifices are obviously tremendous and highly visible. That's what it took for them to live for Jesus Christ. Being a Christian is a tough road that requires supernatural change. I personally think they already answered to God and made a personal sacrifice that few Christians are willing to make.

There are many testimonies of ex-ex gays that refute this so-called "destroying them spiritually", and who are closer to God than ever before and happier with themselves than ever before.

What drove them to be ex-gay to start with? Here, once again, you present a God that can't make up His mind. AGAIN, I just don't believe my God has two expectations on Christian conduct.

'God is in the business of doing miracles" - I agree totally, however it's God's decision which miracles to perform and I believe that there is no motive for Him to "change" us, as we are His design.

We are all born in sin, and it needs to change. God did not make it that way, man did. Only God can undo what man has done to himself.

 

[Ohioprof]

One dosn`t have to have the physical sex act to commit a sin in the eyes of God.
If one says they are Homosexual but choose to be celibrate the fact that they prefer a same sex intimate relationship is still a Sin in the eyes of God.
Kissing someone as well as touching someone in inappropriate places with someone of the same sex is regarded as sexual act and is regarded as sin in the eyes of God.
One can say that they do not believe in God but there are Homosexuals who believe that they follow Christ.
These people need to know that they will be lost in Christ and not regarded as followers of Christ untill they repent,ask God`s forgiveness and sin no more.

I am one of "these people." I appreciate your concern for my soul. However, I disagree with you.

 

[Ohioprof]

But we have a large group of ex-gay Christians that disagree with you Brieuse. Don't they have a right to live their lives for Jesus Christ without your contradictions? Here is a discussion forum where they are in recovery:


Yahoo Group ex-Gay Recovery


You are not allowed to debate there because there is no debate -- these people are hurting. Read it for yourself.



The choice of words "same-sex-sodomy" is strong, but the words "gay", 'homosexual", "lesbian", and "bI-sexual" fail to separate the ACT from the PERSON. I suggest you come up with a better word that eliminates this confusion.

This thread is about the ACT not the PERSON.



But their testimony doesn't belong to you -- it's between them and God. I could stand here and tell you that you can't live for God as a homosexual (which I do happen to believe, by the way), and I'd be doing the very same thing you are doing regarding the ex-gays. God determines their degree of success not you.

Your claim that 99% don't work still leaves the 1% that does work. One example is all it takes to prove you're argument wrong.



Their personal sacrifices are obviously tremendous and highly visible. That's what it took for them to live for Jesus Christ. Being a Christian is a tough road that requires supernatural change. I personally think they already answered to God and made a personal sacrifice that few Christians are willing to make.





What drove them to be ex-gay to start with? Here, once again, you present a God that can't make up His mind. I just don't believe my God has two expectations.




We are all born in sin, and it needs to change. God did not make it that way, man did. Only God can undo what man has done to himself.

No gay person has told other gay people how to live their lives. YOU have told gay people how we should live our lives. You are the one who repeatedly sticks his nose into gay people's business. Do you imagine that gay people are really taking what you say about us seriously? I certainly do not.

 

[MercyBurst]

The OP of this thread is addressed to Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I ignore all other discussion.

 

[MercyBurst]

Anybody ready to discuss the OP?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

No gay person has told other gay people how to live their lives. YOU have told gay people how we should live our lives. You are the one who repeatedly sticks his nose into gay people's business. Do you imagine that gay people are really taking what you say about us seriously? I certainly do not.

One has to decide whether one is gay or Christian. If one is following Christ, one has been told one has to obey all Jesus Commanded, Matthew 28, John 14-15.
When the teaching of Jesus is pointed out, you keep referring to what gay people dont want to be told.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear MercyBurst,

When the teaching of Jesus is pointed out, you keep referring to what gay people dont want to be told.

... I think we are

 

[Brieuse]

But we have a large group of ex-gay Christians that disagree with you Brieuse. Don't they have a right to live their lives for Jesus Christ without your contradictions? Here is a discussion forum where they are in recovery:

Yahoo Group ex-Gay Recovery

You are not allowed to debate there because there is no debate -- these people are hurting. Read it for yourself.



I've heard so many times from gays on this forum, that repentance is not required (I speak of the kind of repentance that most Christians understand). I'm really very tired of debating the "gay version" of it, and will not continue in weasel word discussions with you or anyone else regarding repentance.

The choice of words "same-sex-sodomy" is strong, but the words "gay", 'homosexual", "lesbian", and "bI-sexual" fail to separate the ACT from the PERSON. I suggest you come up with a better word that eliminates this confusion. I have tried very hard to come up with a better word, and unfortunately I am left with "same-sex-sodomy" as the most accurate terminology.


This thread is about the ACT not the PERSON. Help me come up with words that make this CLEAR and VERY IMPORTANT distinction. Otherwise we have no basis for a meaningful dialogue. Perhaps we can't have a meaningful dialogue anyway. Gay activists deliberately jam communication for their own political gain.



But their testimony doesn't belong to you -- it's between them and God. I could stand here and tell you that you can't live for God as a homosexual (which I do happen to believe, by the way), and I'd be doing the very same thing you are doing regarding the ex-gays. God determines their degree of success not you.

Your claim that 99% don't work still leaves the 1% that does work. One example is all it takes to prove you're argument wrong, and I don't believe God has two different expecations on moral conduct.



Their personal sacrifices are obviously tremendous and highly visible. That's what it took for them to live for Jesus Christ. Being a Christian is a tough road that requires supernatural change. I personally think they already answered to God and made a personal sacrifice that few Christians are willing to make.



What drove them to be ex-gay to start with? Here, once again, you present a God that can't make up His mind. AGAIN, I just don't believe my God has two expectations on Christian conduct.



We are all born in sin, and it needs to change. God did not make it that way, man did. Only God can undo what man has done to himself.

I read your yahoo link.

I've seen enough to remain convinced of my opinions.

"Gay activists deliberately jam communication for their own political gain." riiiiight.

"I suggest you come up with a better word that eliminates this confusion." nope

"One example is all it takes to prove you're argument wrong, and I don't believe God has two different expecations on moral conduct" - so what do you say to the 99% that don't get healed?

"
Their personal sacrifices are obviously tremendous and highly visible. That's what it took for them to live for Jesus Christ. Being a Christian is a tough road that requires supernatural change. I personally think they already answered to God and made a personal sacrifice that few Christians are willing to make." - yes, it is tough being a Christian, especially when you're put down by fellow Christians.

"What drove them to be ex-gay to start with" - they have been deceived.

 

[MercyBurst]

I read your yahoo link.

I've seen enough to remain convinced of my opinions.

Fine, but you see these people are trying to live for the Lord. It is quite obvious they are.

"Gay activists deliberately jam communication for their own political gain." riiiiight.

"I suggest you come up with a better word that eliminates this confusion." nope

ok then, we agree that same-sex-sodomy seperates the action from the person. Good. Hopefully we can have a meaningful dialogue now.

"One example is all it takes to prove you're argument wrong, and I don't believe God has two different expecations on moral conduct" - so what do you say to the 99% that don't get healed?

They can be celibate just as I was and so many other Christians were that were not able to marry (biblically). We proved our commitment to Jesus Christ.

"
Their personal sacrifices are obviously tremendous and highly visible. That's what it took for them to live for Jesus Christ. Being a Christian is a tough road that requires supernatural change. I personally think they already answered to God and made a personal sacrifice that few Christians are willing to make." - yes, it is tough being a Christian, especially when you're put down by fellow Christians.

yes, so please stop putiing down ex-gays that are trying very hard to live for Jesus Christ. We would greatly appreciate it.

"What drove them to be ex-gay to start with" - they have been deceived.

They say the same thing about you, but that is not the issue. The issue is they are probably trying a whole lot harder than you are.

It's obvious their sacrifice is great.
It's obvious that they are trying to please the Lord.
It's obvious they want to please the Lord.

The Lord must see this, and God says He hates those that sew discord among the brethren.

Isn't that what's happening here when you criticize their devotion?

 

[Brieuse]

Fine, but you see these people are trying to live for the Lord. It is quite obvious they are.



ok then, we agree that same-sex-sodomy seperates the action from the person. Good. Hopefully we can have a meaningful dialogue now.



They can be celibate just as I was and so many other Christians were that were not able to marry (biblically). We proved our commitment to Jesus Christ.



yes, so please stop putiing down ex-gays that are trying very hard to live for Jesus Christ. We would greatly appreciate it.



They say the same thing about you, but that is not the issue. The issue is they are probably trying a whole lot harder than you are.

It's obvious their sacrifice is great.
It's obvious that they are trying to please the Lord.
It's obvious they want to please the Lord.

The Lord must see this, and God says He hates those that sew discord among the brethren.

Isn't that what's happening here when you criticize their devotion?

I actually feel very sorry for them. I wish I could show them what God has shown me. I believe that they are very sincere in their attempts to be ex-gay, unfortunately I also believe that 99% of them will fail.

 

[Brieuse]

The issue is they are probably trying a whole lot harder than you are.

It's obvious their sacrifice is great.
It's obvious that they are trying to please the Lord.
It's obvious they want to please the Lord.

You forget that I've been down that road.

 

[MercyBurst]

I actually feel very sorry for them. I wish I could show them what God has shown me. I believe that they are very sincere in their attempts to be ex-gay, unfortunately I also believe that 99% of them will fail.

Fail in what way? There is no garauntee that they will become heterosexual, and many don't, but that is not God's measure of success, even as Paul said:

2 Corinthians 12:9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Hence the world's measure is not what counts.

As you can see for yourself, God's light shines the brightest through infirmity.

The ex-gay light shines brightly.

Paul's thorn in the flesh was not explained though it is suspected to be an eye disease. It could have been a sexual infirmity for all we know. He wasn't married.

 

[MercyBurst]

You forget that I've been down that road.

Sacrifice is an ongoing thing. It isn't something that a person gives and then takes back.

 

[savedandhappy1]

I actually feel very sorry for them. I wish I could show them what God has shown me. I believe that they are very sincere in their attempts to be ex-gay, unfortunately I also believe that 99% of them will fail.

Thank Goodness the Lord provides a way for all of us to not fail. Thank you Lord that you make a way to escape all temptation through you.

1 Cor 10:12-13

12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

2 Peter 2:9-10
9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Matt 26:41
41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Gal 6:7-9
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

 

[Ohioprof]

The OP of this thread is addressed to Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I ignore all other discussion.

I am a sister in Christ. But you are free to ignore me if you wish, if you don't want to hear what real gay people have to say about our own lives.

 

[Ohioprof]

Thank Goodness the Lord provides a way for all of us to not fail. Thank you Lord that you make a way to escape all temptation through you.

1 Cor 10:12-13

12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

2 Peter 2:9-10
9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Matt 26:41
41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Gal 6:7-9
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Being gay is not a failure. Loving one's committed life partner is not a failure either.

 

[Ohioprof]

Anybody ready to discuss the OP?

I have been discussing what you write. If you write something about gay people, I'm going to respond to it, since you are writing about a group I belong to.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
One has to decide whether one is gay or Christian. If one is following Christ, one has been told one has to obey all Jesus Commanded, Matthew 28, John 14-15.
When the teaching of Jesus is pointed out, you keep referring to what gay people dont want to be told.

No, one does not have to decide anything of the kind. I am gay and Christian.