One Jesus, two testimonies?

[Phinehas2]

Dear Kiwimac,

Nope, Phineas2,

Yes Kiwimac, Muslims and Hindus do believe in a god but not Jesus Christ of the Bible.

you keep hearing it because your brand of Christianity is all those things.

Thats our point, we are refring to Christianity not a brand of it and demonstarting the error in your statement which describes Muslim and Hindu beliefs and not Christian ones.

Mine is liberal and accepting of others.

Ok we can explore your religion if you wish; you will find God accepted all others when Jesus died on the cross to make a way for all to eternal life.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Mercyburst

Phinehas, does it bother you that the same Jesus tells one group of followers to be gay, and the other group to depart from it before it kills them?

No it doesnt bother me because it isnt the same Jesus. Question well put!.

We agree on the bible, but let's set it aside for a minute.

Focus on this one fact: Jesus brings life to ALL believers.

So how can same-sex bring spirtual life to one group and spiritual death to another group?

This can not be.

If same-sex results in spiritual death for anyone, then it must be wrong.

This totally changes the playing field where ANY exception proves there is impurity in the gay-affirming doctrine.

This is true and the crucial issue. The Christian position has always been that same-sex sex is sin. We do not have a debate on whether same-sex unions are ok, we have a debate on whether the Bible is true under the pretext that there are two different interpetations. This is because our benchmark of truth is the Bible and the others do not have this benchmark.

See how this works?

If you don't then I'll explain it offline. We've been letting them have all the real estate in this debate. It's time to take it back.

Yes I am fully aware without an offline explanation, its clear to all who believe as we do.

Even if it were a case of two different interpretations, we still are entitled to ours which is that there is only one interpretation and the other is not Christian.
The probelm here is that those who do believe there are two interpretations, are objecting to ours as being allowed, namely ours is Christian and the other isnt.
But infact the Bible whihc is our benchmark says that we recognise false teachers when they bring another gospel other than the one the one Paul, Luke, Peter ,John, James and the others have given.

 

[MercyBurst]

Dear Mercyburst
No it doesnt bother me because it isnt the same Jesus. Question well put!.


This is true and the crucial issue. The Christian position has always been that same-sex sex is sin. We do not have a debate on whether same-sex unions are ok, we have a debate on whether the Bible is true under the pretext that there are two different interpetations. This is because our benchmark of truth is the Bible and the others do not have this benchmark.


Yes I am fully aware without an offline explanation, its clear to all who believe as we do.

Even if it were a case of two different interpretations, we still are entitled to ours which is that there is only one interpretation and the other is not Christian.
The probelm here is that those who do believe there are two interpretations, are objecting to ours as being allowed, namely ours is Christian and the other isnt.
But infact the Bible whihc is our benchmark says that we recognise false teachers when they bring another gospel other than the one the one Paul, Luke, Peter ,John, James and the others have given.

Let's refine this concept. Remember what Paul said about abstaining from meats offered to idols?

Paul said he would abstain from meat offered to idols rather than draw his brother into temptation.

This is the point.

Regardless of whether someone thinks same-sex sex is sin or not, it draws a christian brother or sister into a destructive addiction.

No Christian Brother or Sister would do this to their own family.

Hence, by default, gay-affirming doctrine IS SIN, because it entices brothers and sisters in Christ to do that which they vowed to forsake.

I don't see how this can be made anymore clear.

The only conclusion is that gay-affirming doctrine is WRONG WRONG WRONG in the Christian family, and the gay-affirmers need to ABSTAIN from preaching this destructive doctrine.

I'm sorry, but they CAN NOT be family if they continue doing this.

No family member would do this to the body of CHRIST.

 

[synger]

This thread has gotten out of hand. You may disagree with one another, but you may NOT sling accusations and insults around like this. Please try to remain on topic.

 

[Phinehas2]

Please can you show us examples of insults? I dont see any on this page.

 

[MercyBurst]

Please can you show us examples of insults? I dont see any on this page.

Phinehas, they know they can not win this debate.

Would a brother or sister in Christ hurt another brother or sister in Christ?

The answer is Clearly NO, as Paul explains in 1st Corinthians Chapter 8:

6 But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we exist for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.
7 However, not all Christians realize this. Some are accustomed to thinking of idols as being real, so when they eat food that has been offered to idols, they think of it as the worship of real gods, and their weak consciences are violated.

8 It's true that we can't win God's approval by what we eat. We don't miss out on anything if we don't eat it, and we don't gain anything if we do. 9 But you must be careful with this freedom of yours. Do not cause a brother or sister with a weaker conscience to stumble.

10 You see, this is what can happen: Weak Christians who think it is wrong to eat this food will see you eating in the temple of an idol. You know there's nothing wrong with it, but they will be encouraged to violate their conscience by eating food that has been dedicated to the idol.

11 So because of your superior knowledge, a weak Christian, for whom Christ died, will be destroyed. 12 And you are sinning against Christ when you sin against other Christians by encouraging them to do something they believe is wrong. 13 If what I eat is going to make another Christian sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live-for I don't want to make another Christian stumble.

There you have it: gay-affirmers are sinning when they encourage a Christian brother or sister to do something they believe is wrong.

The gay-affirming doctrine IS SIN for this reason ALONE.

In my opinion the gay-affirming debate is defeated on this one point alone.

The gay dragon is slain.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Mercyburst,
You are correct there, that scripture is relevant

I guess we should just make sure we dont insult

 

[kiwimac]

Phineas2,

If you cannot see the insult then I suggest the problem is yours rather than anyone else's.

 

[dayhiker]

gee, I've not read anywhere where someone in this thread is encouraging others to do what they think is wrong.

dayhiker

 

[Floatingaxe]

Phinehas, they know they can not win this debate.

Would a brother or sister in Christ hurt another brother or sister in Christ?

The answer is Clearly NO, as Paul explains in 1st Corinthians Chapter 8:



There you have it: you are sinning when you encourage a Christian brother or sister to do something they believe is wrong.

The gay-affirming doctrine IS SIN for this reason ALONE.

In my opinion the gay-affirming debate is defeated on this one point alone.

The gay dragon is slain.

Excellent!

 

[MercyBurst]

gee, I've not read anywhere where someone in this thread is encouraging others to do what they think is wrong.

dayhiker

Read Dmagoh's threads and you will understand, that this Brother in Christ has been deeply offended in this forum.

You see, by his own admission he had hundreds of gay relationships and the problem went into his marriage.

The gay-affirmers encouraged him to turn gay again. They said he was gay anyhow, etc, etc. Once gay always gay, etc. etc.

Now do you see how this hurts a Brother or Sister in Christ?

 

[MercyBurst]

Here is Dmagoh's webpage

http://foru.ms/u179387

Here is his personal testimony from his web page:

Biography:
I am a Christian man who has struggled with same sex attraction. I am not a practicing homosexual because I know that homosexuality is wrong, know that it is a sin, know that the Bible is very clear in teaching that it is immoral. I do not try to spin it, rationalize it, or conveniently reinterpret the Scripture.

 

[MercyBurst]

Phineas2,

If you cannot see the insult then I suggest the problem is yours rather than anyone else's.

The way I see it you have much bigger things to worry about here.

Anybody for some smoked gay dragon meat?

The apostle Paul says he'll pass.

I guess it's yours then.

 

[OllieFranz]

No I speak for all of us who believe the Bible as God’s word, I speak for millions on this topic.

No you don't speak for all of us who believe the Bible as God's word. I believe the Boble as God's Word and you definitely do not speak for me.

 

[MercyBurst]

No you don't speak for all of us who believe the Bible as God's word. I believe the Boble as God's Word and you definitely do not speak for me.

If you are a brother, and you believe the bible, then do as Paul commanded in 1st Corinthians 8 -- Cease from your gay-affirming doctrine. thank you.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Remember this? That guy posted it when I first joined the forum.

The "truths" of the world

world truth#1 The Bible is truth....except when it isn't (and it usually depends on what my favorite sin is; it is definitely not true when it says my favorite activity is sin)

world Truth #2 God no longer cares how we live, he had His Son crucified so we could live as we please

world Truth #3 Despite what James said in James 5:19, if someone sees a Christian brother has strayed from the truth, and tries to bring him back, he is actually JUDGING and is the WORST of all sinners

world Truth #4 The Bible says that Jesus died for us and rose again on the 3rd day; other than that, any other miracles or supernatural acts that are in the Bible are IMPOSSIBLE since science tells us it couldn't happen (we ignore the fact that science tells us someone cant come back from the dead however)

world Truth #5 Despite the fact that the word "repent" (or "repentance") is used 53 times in the New Testament alone, repentance is NOT REALLY necessary as long as we "love"

world Truth #6 Anything that tries to prevent us from being able to live any way we please is called LEGALISM (despite Jesus saying if we love God we'll obey His commands)

world Truth #7 If you think someone is sinning, it means that you either HATE him, or secretly desire to do what he is doing

world Truth #8 There is no truth, what's true for you may not be true for me (wait a minute... is that truth? I thought there was no such thing as truth!)

 

[Floatingaxe]

No you don't speak for all of us who believe the Bible as God's word. I believe the Boble as God's Word and you definitely do not speak for me.

And what you have spoken on this topic is not of God.

 

[MercyBurst]

And what you have spoken on this topic is not of God.

According to Paul this gay-affirming doctrine is sin, because it lures some brothers and sisters to do what they believe is wrong.

This debate forum is finished. It promotes sin pure in simple for this one reason ALONE.

It doesn't even matter what the bible says about same-sex, the doctrine is sin because of what it does to some believers.

 

[Floatingaxe]

According to Paul this gay-affirming doctrine is sin, because it lures some brothers and sisters to do what they believe is wrong.

This debate forum is finished. It promotes sin pure in simple for this one reason ALONE.

It doesn't even matter what the bible says about same-sex, the doctrine is sin because of what it does to some believers.

Yes! To cause a believer to even contemplate sin is abominable. It's what Satan does. So it follows that this agenda is from hell.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Kiwimac,

Well yes it does, thats the whole point.
To help you realise this fact, consider from where other than the Bible you can know about God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Christian church decided that the canon scripture was true in order to eliminate false teaching. What you seem to be saying is you dont recognise the Christian church or its teaching.

However as I said The dichotomy is in place and a fact, a reality, because if someone doesn’t believe the Biblical testimony of Jesus then they have a different Jesus

I do not necessarily believe the Biblical testimony of Jesus, but I believe that some of what is reported in the Bible is what he actually said, based on the work of scholars who have tried to discern what Jesus probably really said. The fact that I don't believe that everything in the Bible attributed to Jesus is what he actually said does not mean that I try to follow a different Jesus from you. There was only one actual Jesus. It means that I regard Jesus differently than you do. Different Christians look upon Jesus differently.