One Jesus, two testimonies?

[Ohioprof]

According to Paul this gay-affirming doctrine is sin, because it lures some brothers and sisters to do what they believe is wrong.

This debate forum is finished. It promotes sin pure in simple for this one reason ALONE.

It doesn't even matter what the bible says about same-sex, the doctrine is sin because of what it does to some believers.

People don't suddenly become gay because they read about it or think about different points of view. It's not "sin" to present different viewpoints. You've moved from arguing that having sex is sin to arguing that thinking is sin. If God didn't want us to think, he wouldn't have given us brains. You appear to want to shut off all debate, to silence all understandings of being gay that differ from yours. Only by considering all viewpoints do people really learn and develop their own ways of thinking. I think it would be a terrible shame for Christians to stop thinking, to stop considering different viewpoints.

 

[MercyBurst]

People don't suddenly become gay because they read about it or think about different points of view. It's not "sin" to present different viewpoints. You've moved from arguing that having sex is sin to arguing that thinking is sin. If God didn't want us to think, he wouldn't have given us brains. You appear to want to shut off all debate, to silence all understandings of being gay that differ from yours. Only by considering all viewpoints do people really learn and develop their own ways of thinking. I think it would be a terrible shame for Christians to stop thinking, to stop considering different viewpoints.

You missed the point entirely.

Here is Dmagoh's webpage

http://foru.ms/u179387

Here is his personal testimony from his web page:

Biography:
I am a Christian man who has struggled with same sex attraction. I am not a practicing homosexual because I know that homosexuality is wrong, know that it is a sin, know that the Bible is very clear in teaching that it is immoral. I do not try to spin it, rationalize it, or conveniently reinterpret the Scripture.

Here's what happens when gay-affirmers do to our Christian Brothers like DMagoh when they preach their gay-affirming doctrine:

Why would a Christian brother or sister do this to another Christian brother or sister?

They would not. They have two choices:

1) either they should stop doing this

2) or they should stop calling themselves a christian brother or sister. A brother or sister does not sick a dragon on their family.


1st Corinthians 8

12 And you are sinning against Christ when you sin against other Christians by encouraging them to do something they believe is wrong. 13 If what I eat is going to make another Christian sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live-for I don't want to make another Christian stumble.

This pink-eyed dragon is DEAD MEAT.

 

[GenemZ]

People don't suddenly become gay because they read about it or think about different points of view.

No one suddenly becomes anything except Lottery winners.

Sinful trends are often times inherent in the sin nature we were born with, and during our childhood go through the process of discovery.

We all need to be taught manners as children. Do we not? Because our sin natures need to be modified. God's Word gives certain commands in a similar manner to adults. His Word is designed for a certain people (believers), not the entire world. That is pertaining to spiritual matters. Yet, the moral code has transformed much of the world over time.

Little Israel had a moral code about sexuality that the world around her saw as strange and foreign. That world around Israel you would have felt very comfortable with with your sexual orientation. For it was seen as an alternative choice, and nothing else.

It's not "sin" to present different viewpoints. You've moved from arguing that having sex is sin to arguing that thinking is sin.

Its not sin. Its evil to promote sin. Christians who for the most part established America, do not want those who do not hold to Godly principles long established by tradition, to dictate to them the moral standards they are now to accept.

It has become a power struggle. For homosexuals do not want the Christian standards being the accepted norm any longer.

When the sexual revolution of the sixties took place, Christian values went right out the window. The popular use of mind altering drugs played a large part in this matter.

Society in such a state on mind had become propagandized quickly as a large part of an entire generation walked around high, or influenced by those who were, having their traditional norms and standards obliterated.


The very norms and standards that made America (and other countries) morally strong were now being defied. This was the opportune moment for the homosexual community to make a power grab. For at that juncture, sexual standards for heterosexuals had taken a new time low.

The lines of distinction between homosexual sexuality and what heterosexuals were seeking, had become blurred. It was the right time for the power grab, and the homosexual agenda gained momentum quickly.

If God didn't want us to think, he wouldn't have given us brains.

Having brains does not mean one will choose what is right. Anyone with brains should know that.

You appear to want to shut off all debate, to silence all understandings of being gay that differ from yours.

Quite frankly, what you espouse is to many Christians a promotion of what we see as an evil. Having brains that you spoke of? You should know that. Why do you act like you don't?

Only by considering all viewpoints do people really learn and develop their own ways of thinking. I think it would be a terrible shame for Christians to stop thinking, to stop considering different viewpoints.

The mistake you make. Is to think because we oppose your beliefs is to automatically be equated with the inability to think. You insult us when you make such statements.

We can not agree with your viewpoint. And, knowing this, you come here to tell us it is us who have the closed mind. Yet, it is not us who enter into pro-gay forums and try to control their beliefs, like you do here with Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin.

I believe you judge yourself by the way you judge us. For the very things you condemn in how you perceive us, you are actually doing yourself towards us. At least, that's how I see it.


In Christ, GeneZ

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

You missed the point entirely.

Here is Dmagoh's webpage

http://foru.ms/u179387

Here is his personal testimony from his web page:


Here, let me show you what you do to our Christian Brothers like DMagoh when you preach your gay-affirming doctrine:

Why would a Christian brother or sister do this to another Christian brother or sister?

They would not. So you have two choices:

1) either stop doing this

2) or stop calling yourself a christian sister. A sister does not sick a dragon on their family.


1st Corinthians 8

I think Dmagoh is adult enough to make his own decisions. If he is coming to a forum that debates different viewpoints, then he must understand that , some of the viewpoints will be contrary to his. By the way, if you look at his profile again, you will see that he added me as a friend. I never attacked his rright to his opinion, neither did I ever try to change or influence him.
By the way, that cartoon you posted is really strange.

 

[Zaac]

Why would a Christian brother or sister do this to another Christian brother or sister?

He wouldn't. We've said it before and it remains true. You got a lot of folks in this forum who claim that they are Christians but their witness for everything but Christ speaks otherwise.

They are idol worshippers. Their desire to be able to happily fornicate and be in homosexual fornicative relationships is placed ahead of their desire to be obedient to Christ.

Clearly idol worship.

 

[Ohioprof]

You missed the point entirely.

Here is Dmagoh's webpage

http://foru.ms/u179387

Here is his personal testimony from his web page:


Here, let me show you what you do to our Christian Brothers like DMagoh when you preach your gay-affirming doctrine:

Why would a Christian brother or sister do this to another Christian brother or sister?

They would not. So you have two choices:

1) either stop doing this

2) or stop calling yourself a christian sister. A sister does not sick a dragon on their family.


1st Corinthians 8



Your pink-eyed dragon is DEAD MEAT.

I have never done anything to another poster, not to a Christian or to a gay poster. You accuse of doing something to someone I have never heard of.

I am going to continue to speak my mind about being gay. And I am not going to stop calling myself a Christian just because you or other people don't agree with what I think. You are free to post your ideas also, and I will certainly listen to them. But your effort to silence people with other points of view, particularly real gay people speaking about our own lives, is, frankly, disturbing. I do not understand why, in a debate forum, you apparently want to shut down all people who disagree with you. If you do that, then there is no debate.

 

[Ohioprof]

No one suddenly becomes anything except Lottery winners.

Sinful trends are often times inherent in the sin nature we were born with, and during our childhood go through the process of discovery.

We all need to be taught manners as children. Do we not? Because our sin natures need to be modified. God's Word gives certain commands in a similar manner to adults. His Word is designed for a certain people (believers), not the entire world. That is pertaining to spiritual matters. Yet, the moral code has transformed much of the world over time.

Little Israel had a moral code about sexuality that the world around her saw as strange and foreign. That world around Israel you would have felt very comfortable with with your sexual orientation. For it was seen as an alternative choice, and nothing else.





Its not sin. Its evil to promote sin. Christians who for the most part established America, do not want those who do not hold to Godly principles long established by tradition, to dictate to them the moral standards they are now to accept.

It has become a power struggle. For homosexuals do not want the Christian standards being the accepted norm any longer.

When the sexual revolution of the sixties took place, Christian values went right out the window. The popular use of mind altering drugs played a large part in this matter.

Society in such a state on mind had become propagandized quickly as a large part of an entire generation walked around high, or influenced by those who were, having their traditional norms and standards obliterated.


The very norms and standards that made America (and other countries) morally strong were now being defied. This was the opportune moment for the homosexual community to make a power grab. For at that juncture, sexual standards for heterosexuals had taken a new time low.

The lines of distinction between homosexual sexuality and what heterosexuals were seeking, had become blurred. It was the right time for the power grab, and the homosexual agenda gained momentum quickly.







Having brains does not mean one will choose what is right. Anyone with brains should know that.







Quite frankly, what you espouse is to many Christians a promotion of what we see as an evil. Having brains that you spoke of? You should know that. Why do you act like you don't?







The mistake you make. Is to think because we oppose your beliefs is to automatically be equated with the inability to think. You insult us when you make such statements.

We can not agree with your viewpoint. And, knowing this, you come here to tell us it is us who have the closed mind. Yet, it is not us who enter into pro-gay forums and try to control their beliefs, like you do here with Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin.

I believe you judge yourself by the way you judge us. For the very things you condemn in how you perceive us, you are actually doing yourself towards us. At least, that's how I see it.


In Christ, GeneZ

Whether you agree with my viewpoint or not, this is a debate forum, and it is here for the exchange of different viewpoints. I am presenting a viewpoint different from that of some posters here. It's fine that you disagree with me. I am not trying to shut down your expression of your beliefs; I am simply answering your posts with how I see the truth. I will continue to do that, because that is what this forum is for. There is no rule here that we must have strict conformity of thought.

 

[Ohioprof]

He wouldn't. We've said it before and it remains true. You got a lot of folks in this forum who claim that they are Christians but their witness for everything but Christ speaks otherwise.

They are idol worshippers. Their desire to be able to happily fornicate and be in homosexual fornicative relationships is placed ahead of their desire to be obedient to Christ.

Clearly idol worship.

I worship God.

 

[MercyBurst]

I think Dmagoh is adult enough to make his own decisions.

Yet there are many gay-affirmers here that wanted to make his decisions for him. They said "once gay always gay, he's still gay, and he should be true to his gay self."

You should know who they are.

If he is coming to a forum that debates different viewpoints, then he must understand that , some of the viewpoints will be contrary to his.

He isn't here anymore. How do any gay-affirmers help people like him in their walk for Christ.

By the way, if you look at his profile again, you will see that he added me as a friend. I never attacked his rright to his opinion, neither did I ever try to change or influence him.

But others said he was just fooling himself. Nobody can go from gay to straight, they said.

By the way, that cartoon you posted is really strange.

I think the shoe fits.

 

[OllieFranz]

If you are a brother, and you believe the bible, then do as Paul commanded in 1st Corinthians 8 -- Cease from your gay-affirming doctrine. thank you.

Actually I am not gay-affirming. I am, as is the Bible, gay-neutral. Gays are normal human beings subject to the same laws and prey to the same temptations as any of us. But at the same time, if their God-chosen lifemates are the same sex, that is not, in itself, a sin.

[BIBLE]1 Corinthians 8:1-13[/BIBLE]

And as far as 1 Corinthians 8 goes, most of that chapter re-affirms our freedom from the kind of rules that divide us. That is exactly as I have been saying.

And if you are specifically referring to verses 9 to 13, I am very much aware of this responsibility, and when someone is struggling with temptations in this area and does not yet accept that the Bible does not condemn their attractions, I have bowed out of the discussion. Dispite the fact that all the passage demands is that I not "eat flesh" in the face of his doubt. (Since I don't "eat" that particular "flesh" anyway, I would not be in violation of that passage in any case.)

 

[MercyBurst]

Whether you agree with my viewpoint or not, this is a debate forum, and it is here for the exchange of different viewpoints. I am presenting a viewpoint different from that of some posters here. It's fine that you disagree with me. I am not trying to shut down your expression of your beliefs; I am simply answering your posts with how I see the truth. I will continue to do that, because that is what this forum is for. There is no rule here that we must have strict conformity of thought.

Would a brother or sister cause their family to fall? I don't see how this point can be debated.

If somebody wants to debate it then they can do us a favor by not saying they are a sister, because they are in direct violation of 1st Cor 8:12, which just makes reasonable sense anyway, or they should confess their sins as a fellow-believer in Christ. Their gay-affirming doctrine sins against the church body as Paul makes VERY VERY CLEAR.

 

[Ohioprof]

Would a brother or sister cause their family to fall? I don't see how this point can be debated.

If you want to debate it then do us a favor, don't call yourself a sister, because you are in direct violation of 1st Cor 8:12, which just makes reasonable sense anyway, or you can confess your sins as a fellow-believer in Christ. Your gay-affirming doctrine sins against the church body as Paul makes VERY VERY CLEAR.

I simply disagree with you, as do many other Christians. Are you going to tell everyone who accepts gay people that they are not brothers and sisters in Christ?

What family do you accuse people like me of somehow causing to fall? I have caused no one to fall; I am just sharing my beliefs and what I think, in a forum intended for that purpose.

 

[MercyBurst]

I simply disagree with you, as do many other Christians. Are you going to tell everyone who accepts gay people that they are not brothers and sisters in Christ?

I only accept someone as a true brother or sister in Christ if they themselves personally have repented according to what the bible says. Some of them just happen to be gay-affirmers, but if they personally have repented, then they met the biblical requirement for being a Christian.

I also said that brothers and sisters do not HURT their family. I'm not accusing anyone.

What family do you accuse people like me of somehow causing to fall? I have caused no one to fall;

The doctrine entices them to fall, so why would anyone preach it? Why would anyone encourage others to preach it? The content of it speaks for itself. Read Dmagoh's testimony. There are Christians that honestly believe that same-sex sex is a sin. Why would anyone invite them to go against their conscience with gay-affirming doctrine? I'm not accusing someone. Why would anyone invite their brother or sister to fall?

If my brother or sister is a recovering alcholic, do I give them a drink and tell them it's really ok if they just drink one?

I am just sharing my beliefs and what I think, in a forum intended for that purpose.

I can't do that or my post would be deleted.

Here, here, my brother is deathly allergic to aspirin. So do I give him aspirin for a head-ache?


There. I have not accused somebody. next post to correct please.

 

[MercyBurst]

I simply disagree with you, as do many other Christians.

It doesn't matter how many Christians disagree.

If there is only ONE Christian brother or sister that must fight the temptation of same-sex sex, then the whole gay-affirming argument is defeated.

Either they don't care, or they aren't family.

 

[MercyBurst]

Down Boy!! Down Girl!!!

Now that's ONE toasted dragon carcass!!!

Whatta gay-affirming rainbow!!

 

[Ohioprof]

It doesn't matter how many Christians disagree.

If there is only ONE Christian brother or sister that must fight the temptation of same-sex sex, then your whole gay-affirming argument is defeated.

Either you don't care, or you aren't family.

This does not make sense. To affirm gay people is to affirm the inherent worth and dignity of gay people, and to call upon others to treat gay people as equals, just the way we are. I have argued, and I will continue to argue, that Christians should treat gay people fairly and accept us as we are, not level judgments at us or call our love relations "sin." That, I believe, is the truly Christian way to behave, because it's what Jesus would do.If someone believes that they must try to stop being gay, I feel sad for them, because they don't need to try to stop being how God made them; there is no good reason for anyone to try to stop being gay. But it's their life, and I would never judge them negatively for living the way they think is right for themselves. That is what I believe.

 

[Ohioprof]

Down Boy!! Down Girl!!!

Now that's ONE toasted dragon carcass!!!

Whatta gay-affirming rainbow!!

This is really creepy.

 

[MercyBurst]

This is really creepy.

May this dragon never hurt another brother or sister in Christ. What kind of brother or sister would turn it loose on their own?

That thought really creeps ME out BIG TIME. So they are my Christian brother or sister that turn loose the dragon are they? creepy.

 

[Ohioprof]

What "dragon" are you talking about?

 

[Ohioprof]

We gay people are just people. Ordinary people. We are not dragons, not emissaries of Satan. Just people. We are your neighbors, your co-workers, your relatives.I as a gay person am asking that Christians accept us as we are and stop denigrating us and denigrating our love relationships and our families. That's what Jesus would call for. I have no doubt about that. I firmly believe that Jesus would stand with gay people, and would embrace us as we are.