One Jesus, two testimonies?

[davedjy]

You are so very hung up on your rhetoric, that you ignore your reality. You, who sodomize are living outside of the grace and will of God. You have no hope without the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, whom you reject with your very life.

You know nothing of the parts of very Word of God that you even ACCEPT! So what do you bring to the table? Nada, zip, nothing. Your denial of truth is very deep, and secured by Satan himself. You need intercessory prayer to release you from your chains.

Unless you come to Jesus Christ on your knees and ask for forgiveness for your sins, you will not receive salvation, or the God-given deeper understanding of His message to your heart that will change you from the inside out.

Until then, you are on the outside, an orphan, looking in on the happy, healthy family of God.

I see that you cannot make a credible debate point, so you have to try making this about me. Please stop addressing me personally, and stick with the debate topic, or try refuting what I say.

NOTHING *absolutely nothing* can change my relationship with Christ...nothing you can say can put me on the outside since you are not qualified to do that. Not you nor any other imperfect human being on this earth. I will refuse to be put back into the ACTUAL chains, which were the anti-gay doctrine which was paralyzing...ironic you mention chains, but that is what they are. Bondage to false doctrine.

You have also proven that you do not know what you are talking about, making baseless claims on words you don't understand. You have also proven that you don't understand the history behind a word. Since you don't understand them you put the translators up at the same level as God, making them one and the same.

 

[tulc]

What goes in has gotta come out.

Well as my dad always said: we don't own coffee, we just rent it for a while.

It all started way back when others were always yelling at him....

"Will you just take a break!!!
​

(he assumed they meant coffee!)

...they didn't mean a coffee break?
tulc(always suspected they weren't as nice as I thought)

 

[Ohioprof]

No, the Church of Jesus Christ are united in their belief that the Scriptures are holy and inerrant and God is infallible. You see, we know that God is powerful and able to get the message out, untarnished. He is no feeble deity. He is God Almighty!



Interesting that you list the "types" of Christians in a descending order, from totally sold out on God to nominal acknowledgement of Him. Excellent!



Too bad. It is only unbelievers who feel that way. You have just outed yourself.

The order in which I describe the different kinds of Christians is not "descending." It's from right to left, actually, at least in a broad sense. It goes from most rigid to most latitudinarian. There is no hierarchy among the groups as I discuss them, just differences.

I am a believer; I just don't believe in the doctrine that you believe in. I believe differently from you. I have never been closeted about what I believe, and so I did not just "out" myself. I was always out.

 

[davedjy]

Amazing how homosexual expression was so wide spread throughout the Roman Empire, yet Paul makes no mention of it.

If I write in a book today that someone is gay?

3000 years from now?

Someone who reads my words to translate for another? Says that I was speaking about was a homosexual.

The other asks annoyingly where he sees the word 'homosexual' anywhere. That I was really writing about a gleeful person. Obviously, its in the concordance for 20th century English! Gay means gleeful! Happy! A good time!


The argument ensues.

Then you would probably need to explain why all translations are not consistent with each other. Or perhaps, why the translations such as masturbation, male prostitute, male pimp, have anything to do with the same thing as "homosexual". It's called biased translation. If you don't know what a word means, you translate it based upon what you think it means, but that does not make it correct.

Arguments based upon omitted text are not good ones. Paul does not condemn same sex committed relationships, nor does he use the standard term for sexual behavior between males which was the Greek term "Paiderasste".

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Mercyburst,
yes its a good point, the dictioanry definition of Sodomy as with the translations have always recognised Sodomy as being same-sex sex. This is why what we have is gay and lesbian thinking and theology which is based around sexual identity and sees the world through this even to the point of re-writting history and changing the meaning of words.

More dictionary idolatry, I see.

 

[Ohioprof]

That's why there are going to be people in Hell. For, God does not coerce someone to believe what they choose not to. If he did? No one would be in Hell, and everyone would believe the same things.

Its called 'volition.' Its the rock God created that is so heavy, that God can not lift it.

Yes, God can create a rock so heavy that he can not lift it. Human volition! If he could? No one would be in Hell.




.

No one is in hell. There is no such thing.

 

[Ohioprof]

Yeah outside the camp, you know, where Jesus is.
tulc(where all "those" Christians also hang out with Jesus)

Yep, Jesus is outside the camp, with those of us who are regularly shunned by people who call themselves "good Christians." Jesus is hanging out with us, sipping good coffee (fairly traded, of course).

 

[Ohioprof]

Before you run off in a big hurry, how about when Jesus said "you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven" ?

It sounds like a real good idea for somebody following Christ doesn't it?

I am always running off in a big hurry these days, from one class to an appointment to another class to another appointment. I love my life, but I hope death is less hectic than this, and we all get a chance to rest.

Anyhow, I personally have no interest in being "born again," as I am already a Christian, and I am happy with the birth I have had and with how God made me.

 

[Ohioprof]

They are repulsive to Satan also.



Beliefs are nothing unless they gain you salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, and a home with God. Yours don't. They don't free you from your chains, but they merely rearrange your backpack with the back-breaking load of troubles and burdens so you can continue carrying it a few more miles.

Jesus takes the backpack and throws it away, then takes your hand and walks with you.

That's what MY God does.

I do not have faith in order to achieve salvation. I believe all are saved. I have faith because I love God and I love God's creation, and my faith is a celebration of that.

 

[Ohioprof]

Yes we are united and yes we do.

If Christians are all united, then why is there so much disagreement among us? Why are there all these different Christian sects? And why is your church splitting apart over the issues under discussion in these very threads?

 

[Ohioprof]

John 3:1-21
There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee. After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. “Rabbi,” he said, “we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.”

Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
“What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?”
Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.”
“How are these things possible?” Nicodemus asked.
Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven. And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
“There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”





Ohioprof: This is the gospel. This is life, offered to you. Will you accept such an excellent gift? Or will you continue to reject the offer of life from the only One who has it to give you?

The short answer to your question is no.

 

[Ohioprof]

Ain't nobody arguing that. It is what It is. yall might be trying to argue that It is not.



Inconsistent with a God who says He is a God of order, not confusion. Does the above way open the door for confusion?




Girl, stop lying.



Still opening the door for confusion. Why not just do as God's word says in Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

Any understanding that you get that conflicts with His PERFECT Word, is not of Him.

Notice that the confusion and ambiguity only exists amongst those who don't accept His Word as His word and who don't go to Him for their understanding FIRST.




If you're false teaching, there is no need for God's people to receive it.




You're not a Christian. They should. The Word of God says in 1 Cor.1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God

I do not lie. I speak the truth as I understand it. Please stop accusing me of lying. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. But accusing me of lying is simply personal slander, and that's not particularly helpful to to the discussion, nor is it convincing to people who don't already agree with you.

 

[Floatingaxe]

NOTHING *absolutely nothing* can change my relationship with Christ...nothing you can say can put me on the outside since you are not qualified to do that.

No, nothing I say can do such a dastardly deed. But your words reveal your position...

I will refuse to be put back into the ACTUAL chains, which were the anti-gay doctrine which was paralyzing...ironic you mention chains, but that is what they are. Bondage to false doctrine.

Slaves sometimes find comfort in their bondage. They refuse their freedom when a saviour comes with the key.

You have also proven that you do not know what you are talking about, making baseless claims on words you don't understand. You have also proven that you don't understand the history behind a word. Since you don't understand them you put the translators up at the same level as God, making them one and the same.

I know exactly what I am talking about. Whitewash is just that---whitewash. Jesus talks about such a thing:

Matthew 23:27
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.



I don't need to know the history of the word---the Bible is timeless in its message. You take issue with a holy God because you refuse to be holy. The translators were God-picked. I trust my God! Sorry for you that you do not.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The order in which I describe the different kinds of Christians is not "descending." It's from right to left, actually, at least in a broad sense. It goes from most rigid to most latitudinarian. There is no hierarchy among the groups as I discuss them, just differences.

No--it was a descending order from devout, born again Christians, steadily declining from carnal, to mere nominal.

I am a believer; I just don't believe in the doctrine that you believe in. I believe differently from you. I have never been closeted about what I believe, and so I did not just "out" myself. I was always out.

You do believe differently than me---and the entire Church of Jesus Christ worldwide, since Jesus until now and into eternity. That's MULTIMILLIONS!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yeah outside the camp, you know, where Jesus is.
tulc(where all "those" Christians also hang out with Jesus)

Unbelievers are on the outside looking in, with their noses pressed up against the window pane, observing the joy and solidarity of the happy family inside. The family invites the orphans in, to enjoy their blessings and to become adopted in, but they refuse, preferring their aimlessness and their bed under a bridge.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I am always running off in a big hurry these days, from one class to an appointment to another class to another appointment. I love my life, but I hope death is less hectic than this, and we all get a chance to rest.

Anyhow, I personally have no interest in being "born again," as I am already a Christian, and I am happy with the birth I have had and with how God made me.

How confused you are!

"Born again" is becoming a Christian! So, as you know nothing about receiving salvation, how can you possibly contend for Christ?

 

[Floatingaxe]

I do not have faith in order to achieve salvation. I believe all are saved. I have faith because I love God and I love God's creation, and my faith is a celebration of that.

Sorry, but the bible doesn't teach that. You disagree with God. It would be nice to see you say something that God says for a change, especially as you say you love Him so much.

2 Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5, 9
who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time...
receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

 

[Floatingaxe]

If Christians are all united, then why is there so much disagreement among us? Why are there all these different Christian sects? And why is your church splitting apart over the issues under discussion in these very threads?

Because you have sinful people who are disobedient and hard-headed who refuse teaching. Jesus calls them "stiff-necked" people.They refuse the Word of God as truth and they refuse Christ as the means for salvation...then there are those who say they accept Christ, but they lie, because they refuse to follow after Him in holiness.

So, you have all manner of sick people who need healing in matters of faith.

Everyone else in the Church of Jesus Christ have merely minor differences and they don't let them get in the way of fellowship or their obedience to the gospel.

 

[MercyBurst]

Anyhow, I personally have no interest in being "born again," as I am already a Christian, and I am happy with the birth I have had and with how God made me.

OK, so Jesus knows you don't trust Him at His word. That's all I needed to know.

 

[Ohioprof]

No--it was a descending order from devout, born again Christians, steadily declining from carnal, to mere nominal.



You do believe differently than me---and the entire Church of Jesus Christ worldwide, since Jesus until now and into eternity. That's MULTIMILLIONS!

I know many Christians who believe what I do. There are not many of them posting here, but there are many in the world. The entire Christian community does not believe what you do. Different Christians hold different beliefs about the role of the Bible in their faith, how to interpret the Bible, and what other sources of knowledge to look to.