One Church & One Faith

[Albion]

<staff edit>

Like it or not, I think that's the message that was delivered by the OP.

 

[Tangible]

Ecclesiastical repristination is vanity. History happens.

 

[Big Drew]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”. Is “one church & one faith” possible or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

I don't think it's possible, as already proven by history...there was one church, which split into two...and it just continued from there, over the years.

Having said that, I have personally seen local churches split due to things as trivial as what color carpet should be int he sanctuary...but other matters which can cause strife within the church can end up being detrimental to the faith of those involved...so I would say it's best to separate yourselves.

Jesus only is a great idea, but what you think Jesus' message is, and what I think it is, and what someone else thinks it is could be three different things...is the Bible literal? Is it symbolic? Is it both?

Even within denominations you get differing opinions...some Southern Baptists are Calvinist, while others are Arminian.

Some Pentecostals allow women to be pastors...others think only a man is called to that role...

You have those that see the need for a hierarchy, while others believe it's an elder board, then others believe in church autonomy...

And we're not even scratching the surface...

Way too many variables for it to work.

 

[1stcenturylady]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”. Is “one church & one faith” possible or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

We are unified on the core issues. All the rest we either do unto the Lord, or we don't do unto the Lord.

 

[Neogaia777]

If only we all "loved" the way God defines love, we might all be able to unite under that banner...

Other than that I see no other way right now...

God Bless!

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

from the Begining God stablished Order by apointing Patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Israel etc) then apointing prophets (Moses, Samuel, Isaiah etc) and kings (David) thus when Jesús God himself, came to us, didn't erased that hierarchical order of people, in stead he founded the NEW COVENANT which Jeremiah and Isaiah anounced that was going to replace the Old Covenant.

Jesús put Peter ahead of the Church in his visible Absence:

"Do you Love Me MORE THAN these?"

Peter's ministery was founded to remain, but it was not a hereditary Position like the Levi Tribe ownership of Old Covenant Priesthood, but rather a Position which was entrusted to the one who is constantly challenged to Love Jesús MORE tan the others. That is Papacy.

 

[BobRyan]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”. Is “one church & one faith” possible or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

Each person has that same choice every day. Every day the Bible is there as our text of study - every day we can choose to study and accept it - or just blindly follow whatever tradition we happen to find ourselves in.

Everyone would "like to think" that they are doing that very thing.

Notice what happens to Peter in Matthew 16. Jesus asks a doctrinal question about the Messiah - who do people think Jesus is... and then "But who do YOU think I am" is what follows.

Peter gives the right answer.

Christ affirms him.

Peter views himself in the positive light as I describe the one who accepts what the Bible says and does not simply blindly follow the tradition and priests of his denomination.

But then Christ confronts Peter with the "next step" of truth... the "crucified Messiah" and Peter STOPS! Christ then turns and says to Peter "get behind me Satan"

This is the story repeated over and over by individual after individual. Having come a certain distance in truth - they stop at the edge of their "tradition" when truth seems to unfold before them beyond the boundaries they set for it. Beyond what their traditions will "approve".

 

[Paul Yohannan]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”.

We would be disobeying the New Testament, which establishes those hoerarchies and traditions.

Is “one church & one faith” possible

Yes, and indeed there is only one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

The current multiplicity of schisms is tragic, but the answer is not to dilute the True Faith in an attempt to make it more inclusive (of error).

 

[Philip_B]

The pragmatic reality is would that I envisage be the Church that you envisage? And if not, then what is the compromise?

There is this thing we understand as the historic deposit of faith. What composes that historic deposit of faith is a matter of conjecture. In the second half of the 19th Century the Anglicans, keen on ecumenism identified four things at the centre of the historic deposit of faith. They are (1) Holy Scripture (Old and New Testaments) contains all things needed for salvation (2) the Creeds (Nicene and Apostles) (3) The Dominical (instituted by Christ) Sacraments (Baptism and Eucharist) (4) The Historic Episcopate.

That list is shorter than the list on the OP signature, yet even still we may have trouble. The RCC, EOC and OOC all express much bigger lists in the sacred deposit of faith. The RCC is not yet a member of the WCC, so we have a distance to go. I am sure that we need to hear each other more, and whilst an organic monolithic structure may not be possible right now, we need to be learning to express our unity better.

There is more that unites us than keeps us apart.

 

[seashale76]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”. Is “one church & one faith” possible or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

So, stop trying to reinvent the wheel then. Come and see. Come home.

 

[Philip_B]

So, stop trying to reinvent the wheel then. Come and see. Come home.

Such a delightfully Eastern Answer!

 

[TheSeabass]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”. Is “one church & one faith” possible or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

There is one body and one faith Ephesians 4:4-5 and man can never change that with his own inventions. Matthew 15:13-14 the Jews, rather than believing in Christ, were blind for following their own ideas/teachings. God planted one body and one faith and anything not of that one body and faith will be rooted up. If men can believe in things not in the bible, believe in ideas that are mutually exclusive one to another and yet still be saved, then what purpose does the bible serve if one can be saved but not have to follow the bible's teachings? John 17:17 the bible is truth, who can be saved apart from the truth? Each person will have to decide and 'make his own bed and lie in it' and on judgment day there will be a separation of those who were following bible doctrine from those who thought they were following bible doctrine, Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Albion]

The reason there won't be one institutional church is because we all agree to the importance of Scripture, and there are elements in the Bible that can be interpreted in different ways.

So there will be divisions. That doesn't make the divisions so critical that we don't consider each other all to be disciples of Christ, but we will nevertheless still be following, in daily practice, different interpretations of at least some matters.

 

[TheSeabass]

The reason there won't be one institutional church is because we all agree to the importance of Scripture, and there are elements in the Bible that can be interpreted in different ways.

So there will be divisions. That doesn't make the divisions so critical that we don't consider each other all to be disciples of Christ, but we will nevertheless still be following, in daily practice, different interpretations of at least some matters.

--The bible condemns divisions.

--The fact there are different interpretations prove that many-most have the wrong interpretation therefore do not have the one faith.

 

[Albion]

--The bible condemns divisions.

Oh, I didn't say that there ought to be divisions or that it's ideal if there are such. I just said that there will be.

act there are different interpretations prove that many-most have the wrong interpretation therefore do not have the one faith.

And this isn't true, either. While there are some basic divisions in the Christian family, most denominations are separated from the others owing to small issues that are not a denial of the faith--which person should be leading the flock, or what to do about gay marriages, or how the worship service is to be conducted, for example. None of that goes to the heart of the faith.

 

[Philip_B]

The reason there won't be one institutional church is because we all agree to the importance of Scripture, and there are elements in the Bible that can be interpreted in different ways.

So there will be divisions. That doesn't make the divisions so critical that we don't consider each other all to be disciples of Christ, but we will nevertheless still be following, in daily practice, different interpretations of at least some matters.

Sadly, the church of which you and I are both most strongly connected expressed much of it's intent in the Articles of 1562 where had a clear intent to encompass all faithful subjects (be they inclined to the opinions of the reformers or not) to Church and Monarch. We have increasingly become communities of common opinion rather than the communities that are capable of embracing a holy diversity. We are called to be one, that is not the same as calling all to be the same. We have lost the joy of the eccentric, and I feel that is a sad thing.

 

[PanDeVida]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”. Is “one church & one faith” possible or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

Inquiring, it was the hierarchies that gave us the Bible, and you want to do away with them now. If it all ended with the Apostles and no successors you would not know "Jesus only" today.

Jesus Christ, left us a Church founded on ROCK and with it comes these Hierarchies. To do away with the Hierarchies and their successors you are not of Jesus and not of His Church that He founded on Rock.

 

[Albion]

Inquiring, it was the hierarchies that gave us the Bible

No, there are no hierarchies at work with the writing of the NT books.

Jesus Christ, left us a Church founded on ROCK and with it comes these Hierarchies.

That's one theory.

 

[Thursday]

What if we did away with hierarchies and traditions in Christianity, and just started over with “Jesus only”. Is “one church & one faith” possible or are we just too embedded and divided... and will our penchant for control, together with individual problems and situations, always necessitate groups and sects?

Jesus only started one Church, and it was a hierarchy. He appointed the apostles as leaders of the Church and Peter as leaders of the apostles. Most Christians in the world belong to this Church.

Without a single hierarchy unity is not possible.

 

[Thursday]

<staff edit>

I could be wrong, but I don’t think the Bible really addresses a hierarchy beyond elders and deacons, with Jesus Christ the head of course. During the time of the early church there where apostles who laid the groundwork for churches and appointed elders, but it seems to me that churches themselves were meant to be autonomous. That’s not to say they shouldn’t cooperate with each other though “one church – one faith”. Elders in the NT were not given authority over other elders, and where in the Bible are there distinctions between clergy and laity (must be tradition only). Only the early apostles exercised authority over more than one church, but they even considered themselves fellow workers. And, I bet “Jesus only” is not a meaningless statement to the thief on the cross.

Not exactly true. For example, when the Christians in Antioch had a dispute about what was required of gentile converts, they sent Paul to the leaders of the Church to get a decision. Check out Acts 15, especially the verse that says, "we have heard that some went out from us WITHOUT OUR AUTHORITY..."