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Philip_B

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I at least showed here that you didn't know about the Filioque in the Sacred Scripture. Protestants use to focuse on Saint Paul letters, an the Old testament, when you ask them on the Gospels particularly Matthew 5, They simply go excusing that they have faith and that it is useless to do work of charity for the matters of salvation. They are very well taught in the verses which can be missinterpreted to support false doctrines
I reject these assertions absolutely.
  • You have far from demonstrated the filioque in scripture, and in reality all you would be demonstrating would be the appropriateness of a theology of double procession, which you might note I have already acknowledged. I am not Photus. I actually believe that the theology of double procession is entirely consistent with scripture, how ever not every theology of double procession is supported by scripture.
  • It may be true that there are numbers of Reformation Christians who do seemingly weight there expression of the Holy Scriptures in the Pauline corpus. The Pauline corpus does reference the Old Testament, 1st and 2nd canon, and you certainly here a limited splattering from the Old Testament in the assortments of their great orations.
  • The capacity to misinterpret the truth revealed in scripture is not limited to the churches of the reformation. We all, even you, even me, have a capacity to use scripture in the same way a drunk uses a lamp post - more for support than for illumination.
So far it seems you want to beat your chest and declare the truth as you see it as the truth for all people and anyone who does not agree with you is wrong. This leads to a level of frustration experienced by those in the thread, and it is my hope that we can speak and listen more respectfully, and maybe we can all learn.

As Pope Francis and The Archbishop Justin of Canterbury said

our division is a scandal and a shame
 
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Philip_B

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I just Called Every catholic who turns protestant Ignorant of catholicism, And Protestant Pastors who convert into catholics they are not only not ignoran on protestantism but very knowledgable on catholicism.
If it helps, however I don't see the value
 
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W2L

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If you departed from the Church of the Apostles to follow new doctrines ¿What perseverance are you talking about? ¿If Monasteries, Parishes, Cathedrals Sanctuaries of the Apostolic Churh were destroyed there where the protestants prevailed ¿What Kindness are you talking about? If you call the bishop Of Rome the Beast of the Apocalypse and to The Catholic Church the harlot of Babylon, ¿What Brotherhood are you talking about?



Exactly



And that is why we say that Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus.

I never called the Pope or any bishop anything, please don't misrepresent me in such a way. As far as perseverance goes, you comments only show your own ignorance of that scripture. We persevere through trial and tribulation, and not what you claim we persevere in. I really dont want to debate with you any longer, please, dont reply again, i dont want to come back and defend myself. I need some peace. I hate contention. G'night
 
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Thus you claim all who become protestant, or all who stay in Protestantism, are ignorant.

Catholics who go protestant usually never go to mass never participate in Catholic Pastoral Groups, never had an active role in their parish. they are mostly people who showed none or Little interest in the life of sanctity.


So all protestants are ignorant in your view.
I didn't say so, I said that the Protestants who have the curiosity to dig deeper in the roots of Christianism find that the first millenium Christianity was Catholicism.

I have better things to do than destroy my own edification by debating with you Alonso. Your opinion is noted. Have a good night. Peace

Don't take it personal.
 
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I never called the Pope or any bishop anything, please don't misrepresent me in such a way. As far as perseverance goes, you comments only show your own ignorance of that scripture. We persevere through trial and tribulation, and not what you claim we persevere in. I really dont want to debate with you any longer, please, dont reply again, i dont want to come back and defend myself. I need some peace. I hate contention. G'night


I don't say You as a single Person but You as Plural as the general stand of Protestantism as Luther, Calvin, Smith, etc. Leaders to whose doctrines you as protestants have signed to.
 
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W2L

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I don't say You as a single Pearson but You as Plural as the general stand of Protestantism as Luther, Calvin, Smith, etc. Leaders to whose doctrines you as protestants have signed to.
If a misguided protestant thinks that praying to the queen of heaven is sound doctrine, then that's their ignorance, and they are welcome to it. As for me, i will never support canonization of Saints, and surely not praying to them. I wont be taking pilgrimages to Rome the holy land, :eek: nor will i bow to the pope, nor kiss his ring. I could sit here and be like you, and incessantly promote anti Catholicism, just as you promote Catholicism, but what would that do? Ive resisted doing this up till now, but you just never give up. Its just vain. You have a good day, please stop responding to my posts, ok? Thank you so much.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Catholics who go protestant usually never go to mass never participate in Catholic Pastoral Groups, never had an active role in their parish. they are mostly people who showed none or Little interest in the life of sanctity...


Do you have any evidentiary study to support this assertion or is it merely personal opinion? Since joining my Episcopal Church, I have learned that approximately 1/2 of my parish are former Roman Catholics. I know many who were very involved Catholics, including former Catholic seminarians, until a variety of differences led them to seek other avenues for expression of their faith.
 
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If a misguided protestant thinks that praying to the queen of heaven is sound doctrine, then that's their ignorance, and they are welcome to it.

Praying to the Queen of Heaven forbidden in the Old testament was a sin of idolatry since they were not praying to Mary Mother of Jesus, Mother of God. As you can read in:

Jeremiah 7:18
18 See the children gathering sticks, the father lighting a fire, the mother kneading dough, and all to make cakes for the queen of heaven! See how they offer libation to alien gods, to despite me!

For the Times of Jeremiah Babylon hadn’t taken over Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple of Salomon. Thus they were not Praising the Mother of God, since Mary hadn’t been born.
But If you go ahead in the history of salvation, Isaiah had already announced that a virgin was going to give a child, A Son whose name was going to be Wonder Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 7:14
Sign you ask none, but sign the Lord will give you. Maid shall be with child, and shall bear a son,[3] that shall be called Emmanuel.

Isaiah 9:5
For a son has been born for us, a son has been given to us, and dominion has been laid on his shoulders; and this is the name he has been given, 'Wonder-Counsellor, Mighty-God, Eternal-Father, Prince-of-Peace'

Thus the Woman, the virgin, was going to be mother of God. Then the revelation continues, and we arrive to Luke’s Gospel.

Luke 1:39-45
39 In the days that followed, Mary rose up and went with all haste to a town of Juda, in the hill country
40 where Zachary dwelt; and there entering in she gave Elizabeth greeting.
41 No sooner had Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, than the child leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth herself was filled with the Holy Ghost;
42 so that she cried out with a loud voice, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 How have I deserved to be thus visited by the mother of my Lord?
44 Why, as soon as ever the voice of thy greeting sounded in my ears, the child in my womb leaped for joy.
45 Blessed art thou for thy believing; the message that was brought to thee from the Lord shall have fulfilment.


So here we see it, at first Glance it seems that Elizabeth is praising Mary, but we have to look it deeper, it is not Elizabeth by herself, Is the Holy Spirit who having filled Elizabeth makes her to praise Mary and Proclaim her Mother of the Lord, Mother of God.

We also have to see one thing here, The Voice of Mary rejoices John the Baptist in the womb of Elizabeth. Yes, Mary became the Ark of the New Covenant in resemblance of the Ark of the Old Covenant to which King David Danced at its pass.

This Reference of the Ark of the Covenant and Mary is not only apparent here, it is plainly expressed in the Book of the Apocalipse.

Revelation 11:19 Revelation 12:1-2
Then the sanctuary of God in heaven opened, and the ark of the covenant could be seen inside it. Then came flashes of lightning, peals of thunder and an earthquake and violent hail.
Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman, robed with the sun, standing on the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
She was pregnant, and in labour, crying aloud in the pangs of childbirth


So there it is, Mary Crowned in Heaven, Mary Queen of Heaven, Ark of the Covenant.

The Ark of the Covenant had Manna and the Word of God. Mary actually portrays Jesus who is true Manna and Word of God.

Luke 1:46-48
46 And Mary said, My soul magnifies the Lord;
47 my spirit has found joy in God, who is my Saviour,
48 because he has looked graciously upon the lowliness of his handmaid. Behold, from this day forward all generations will count me blessed;


Unfortunately Protestants don’t use to praise Mary; some of them even downgrade her.
As for me, i will never support canonization of Saints, and surely not praying to them.

That is because you ignore the Bible:

Hebrews 12:1
1 Why then, since we are watched from above by such a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of all that weighs us down, of the sinful habit that clings so closely, and run, with all endurance, the race for which we are entered.

Revelation 5:8
8 and when he disclosed it,[1] the four living figures and the twenty-four elders fell down in the Lamb’s presence. Each bore a harp, and they had golden bowls full of incense, the prayers of the saints.

The Elders in heaven who sit in thrones before the Father and the Son portray our prayers and offer them to Jesus, Only Mediator to The Father.
¿How did our prayers reach them? ¿How did they get them?

We give our prayers to them so they offer them to Jesus and Jesus to the Father, And that happens that way the same way it happened here in our dimension of existence:

Matthew 15:22-23
22 And suddenly out came a Canaanite woman from that district and started shouting, 'Lord, Son of David, take pity on me. My daughter is tormented by a devil.'
23 But he said not a word in answer to her. And his disciples went and pleaded with him, saying, 'Give her what she wants, because she keeps shouting after us.'

The Apostles intercede for us they take our prayers and present them to Jesus. It is not that Jesus didn’t hear the woman it is not that Jesus doesn’t hear us, but He tests us in our faith, and the disciples, the Saints, all the ones who have been found close friends of Jesus intercede for our needs so Jesus, The Lord, concede us his grace in our needs.

I wont be taking pilgrimages to Rome the holy land,

We Catholics are not commanded to do that. I am 39y/o and I have never gone there. My mother has, my sisters have, and they say it is Amazing.

nor will i bow to the pope, nor kiss his ring.

Acts 16:27-31
27 When the gaoler woke and saw the doors wide open he drew his sword and was about to commit suicide, presuming that the prisoners had escaped.
28 But Paul shouted at the top of his voice, 'Do yourself no harm; we are all here.'
29 He called for lights, then rushed in, threw himself trembling at the feet of Paul and Silas,
30 and escorted them out, saying, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'
31 They told him, 'Become a believer in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, and your household too.'


He who stands and welcomes and praise the elected by God, receive not only them but to whom sent them.

Luke 10:16
16 'Anyone who listens to you listens to me; anyone who rejects you rejects me, and those who reject me reject the one who sent me.'

Matthew 10:40-42
40 'Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me; and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.
41 'Anyone who welcomes a prophet because he is a prophet will have a prophet's reward; and anyone who welcomes an upright person because he is upright will have the reward of an upright person.
42 'If anyone gives so much as a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is a disciple, then in truth I tell you, he will most certainly not go without his reward.'


So remember, you are not bowing to Worship but to revere, not necessarily revering the person, but revering He who he represents and He who sends them. And Yes, Jesus will compensate with blessings those who receive and treat well his disciples.

I could sit here and be like you, and incessantly promote anti Catholicism,

And I would be here answering

just as you promote Catholicism,

Just as I am commanded to do it.

but what would that do?

That will do much, that will bring to the table all the concerns which are there which are the real causes of division. That way we can go one by one to curing those wounds not with rhetoric but with the word of God.

Ive resisted doing this up till now,

I celebrate it but I also think it is necessary to dig all those issues which keep you separated from the One True Church. Issues which were put there inside you by anti-Catholic readings and anti catholic teachings which at the beginning causes scandal and then hate, my intention is to show the truth behind the catholic teaching so you may reject those issues which cause you hate towards the Catholic Church, which is the only way you can be saved.

but you just never give up. Its just vain. You have a good day, please stop responding to my posts, ok? Thank you so much.

Right, I will do what I think is best.
 
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Do you have any evidentiary study to support this assertion or is it merely personal opinion? Since joining my Episcopal Church, I have learned that approximately 1/2 of my parish are former Roman Catholics. I know many who were very involved Catholics, including former Catholic seminarians, until a variety of differences led them to seek other avenues for expression of their faith.

Disafected Seminarians use to move towards Anglicanism for marriage.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Disafected Seminarians use to move towards Anglicanism for marriage.

Yes, but not just them. Others too. There is an expression that many roads lead to Rome; many roads also lead away from it.
 
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