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Once saved always saved

redleghunter

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Yes,
Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Perverse heresy,
Basically says God alone chooses who He will save, Man has nothing to do with being saved.
And says God chooses who will be saved and who will be damned, man does not have a choice in salvation.
I'm very glad the God I serve said "whosoever will, may come"
Well keep hitting the history books. Calvin had nothing to do with the 5 points. He was dead when the Synod of Dort addressed the 5 points of Arminianism with 5 counter points of their own.

Usually when you attack a certain issue or point you should be as much an expert of the material as those you oppose. Complete failure here.

However Reformed theology is what you are railing against and it is Biblical unlike works based or performance based theology.

If you truly want an education on Reformed theology you can go here:

Calvinism is the Gospel
 
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EJ M

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Well keep hitting the history books. Calvin had nothing to do with the 5 points. He was dead when the Synod of Dort addressed the 5 points of Arminianism with 5 counter points of their own.

Usually when you attack a certain issue or point you should be as much an expert of the material as those you oppose. Complete failure here.

However Reformed theology is what you are railing against and it is Biblical unlike works based or performance based theology.

If you truly want an education on Reformed theology you can go here:

Calvinism is the Gospel
You are right, however all 5 points were Calvin's "doctoring" of Augustine-ism.
The Synod of Dort did not invent Calvinism.
Only clarified/simplified it.
I'm still glad the God I serve said"whosoever will may come"
 
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redleghunter

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Basically says God alone chooses who He will save, Man has nothing to do with being saved.
And says God chooses who will be saved and who will be damned, man does not have a choice in salvation.
Again another bumper sticker failure.

Yes God is sovereign in salvation since it is His plan and His shed Blood. If you truly want to know the roots of Reformed theology here it is:

Ephesians 1: NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

15For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which existsamong you and your love for all the saints, 16do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. 18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,19and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might 20which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.


Ephesians 2: NASB

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
 
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redleghunter

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You are right, however all 5 points were Calvin's "doctoring" of Augustine-ism.
The Synod of Dort did not invent Calvinism.
Only clarified/simplified it.
I'm still glad the God I serve said"whosoever will may come"
Actually all 5 points are Biblical. And Calvin did not personally ascribe to limited atonement. So please explain that one. I guess Calvin was a 4 pointer after all. ;)
 
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redleghunter

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I'm still glad the God I serve said"whosoever will may come"
Me too! Then again who actually comes to Him? Paul was preaching all over Corinth as he was he was led by the Holy Spirit. He obviously did not know who would respond to the Gospel or not. This is what God told him:

Acts 18: NASB
7So Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his whole household believed in the Lord. And many of the Corinthians who heard the message believed and were baptized.

9One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking; do not be silent. 10For I am with you and no one will lay a hand on you, because I have many people in this city.” 11So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching the word of God among the Corinthians.(NASB)

What did the Lord mean by “I have many people in this city?”
 
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redleghunter

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I don’t think this thread needs to slip into yet another Calvinism rant.

Start a new thread please.
Lol yeah seems like there are three or four threads each day opposed to the Doctrines of Grace.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Lol yeah seems like there are three or four threads each day opposed to the Doctrines of Grace.
And people that are interested are participating.

I’m sure a Calvinism thread may interest someone if you start one.
 
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EJ M

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Me too! Then again who actually comes to Him? Paul was preaching all over Corinth as he was he was led by the Holy Spirit. He obviously did not know who would respond to the Gospel or not. This is what God told him:

Acts 18: NASB
7So Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his whole household believed in the Lord. And many of the Corinthians who heard the message believed and were baptized.

9One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking; do not be silent. 10For I am with you and no one will lay a hand on you, because I have many people in this city.” 11So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching the word of God among the Corinthians.(NASB)

What did the Lord mean by “I have many people in this city?”

1 Per 1:2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I think we can all agree, if Satan could choose, not a single person would be saved.
Hopefully we can agree, It's not God's will for any to perish.
That only leaves us to choose. Matt 22:14, For many are called, but few are chosen. Duet 30:19,
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Joshua 24:15, And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord
I'm ever more grateful that whosoever will may come.
I come!
 
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redleghunter

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And people that are interested are participating.

I’m sure a Calvinism thread may interest someone if you start one.
Everyone is always invited to Semper Reformanda to ask a Calvinist. However that is set up for those who truly want to engage in doctrinal discussion and not assertion driven drive by.

The same goes with a thread started by @JM here:

Calvinism is the Gospel
 
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Kota

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I think that if a person believers in conditional eternal security, they can still be secure with eternal life. To me, conditional security means that as long as we abide in Christ we are guaranteed eternal life. We don’t have to fear hell as long as we fully trust in Chirst. I really don’t think we are maintaining our salvation, God is the one doing that. He is keeping us in his grace and leads us to eternal life. I don’t think once saved always saved is biblical because it means that a person,for example, can murder, be an adulterous person, idol worshipper, accept the mark of the best willingly, and do other sinful things, and still expect heaven. To me, when the Bible was talking about who would not inherit the kingdom of God was to both believers and unbelievers.
Also, on the other side is people saying conditional eternal security is a heresy. There is so much division it’s hard to know who to trust. Right now, the church I go had two campuses. I am close with the pastor of the main campus, which is the lead pastor, and I am close with the pastor of the small campus. I try to look for pastors sermons online and it’s hard to know who is teaching truth. I know my pastors teach truth and everything they say is biblically grounded and they do not teach man made doctirines. Luckily they post their teachings online so I always have something to do to grow me spiritually. I know the Holy Spirit is our main teacher and then comes our pastor. That’s what my pastors say all the time.
Does anyone know of any good pastors I can listen to online?
 
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redleghunter

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1 Per 1:2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I think we can all agree, if Satan could choose, not a single person would be saved.
Hopefully we can agree, It's not God's will for any to perish.
The verse you quote confirms the doctrine of election as laid out in Ephesians chapter 1.

And yes God does not want any to perish. So if I take your point to the logical conclusion it either means universal reconciliation or Universalism or the “that none should perish” means a desire and not all will be saved.

Which Biblically we know we are to preach the Gospel to all souls and that God is sovereign in salvation. This is the human perspective to evangelism. Yet we have both Paul and Peter say God chooses. Jesus did too.

Two possibilities. One is God chooses us based on some quality we have. It can’t be that we choose Him is this quality, because the Scriptures teach He calls many but chooses few. Or that God in His Divine Sovereignty actually does choose as the Scriptures teach. This is a Divine mystery of course and the only way to explain it is to take His word for how He revealed it.

When an Apostle appeals to someone to come to Christ, they are the messenger. They sow the soil not knowing which type of soil we are. As we know from the parable of the soils (Matthew 13) some seed fell on the path, rocky, thorny and good soil. Only the good soil produced.

The same way any Evangelist today spreads the Gospel. Yet not knowing the composition of the soil. That’s God’s Sovereign work. We sow and sow we shall.

Does it seem fair not all the soils were suitable to receive and produce? Not a question for a Calvinist but one for God if one is so inclined to ask Him. So the Arminian and Calvinist sow knowing it is God Who is the Lord of the Harvest.

On the notion that in Reformed theology one does not choose Christ and does not repent and call upon His name....I don’t know where this comes from but I will say we cannot make such a choice without the Divine work of the Holy Spirit. See Ephesians 2.

That only leaves us to choose. Matt 22:14, For many are called, but few are chosen.
That verse actually is affirmed by Reformed theology. The choosing in the verse is by Whom exactly?

Duet 30:19,
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Yes the Mosiac covenant of the Land. Eternal life was not promised and this is what YHWH says about the covenant you speak of:

Jeremiah 31: NASB
31“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” (NASB)

Here too:

Ezekiel 36: NASB
22“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23“I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight.24“For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (NASB)

Notice all the “I Will” statements above.
 
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Kota

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If one returns to a life of sin what exactly does that look like? How many sins, for how long?

What usually constitutes one leading a life of sin?
I think being a slave of sin. When someone returns to living a life characterized by sin.
 
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redleghunter

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I know my pastors teach truth and everything they say is biblically grounded and they do not teach man made doctirines.
Yet making eternal life conditional is not Biblical. Jesus said so.

John 5: 24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (NASB)
 
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redleghunter

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I think being a slave of sin. When someone returns to living a life characterized by sin.
Ok now what makes you think a child of God would return to such a state? And who on earth judges that they have returned to such a state?
 
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Kota

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Yet making eternal life conditional is not Biblical. Jesus said so.

John 5: 24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (NASB)
I’m not sure of my pastors position on conditional security so I am going to try to talk to them about it.
 
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Kota

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Ok now what makes you think a child of God would return to such a state? And who on earth judges that they have returned to such a state?
I can never know someone’s heart so I would not be sure if someone is saved or not. I would not judge somebody.
 
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Kota

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There is verses that imply conditionial security and some that imply unconditional security. I’m not sure of which position to take so that’s why I am trying to read things from both sides and then make my decision after careful study. Do you think that conditional security doctrine leads to hell?
 
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redleghunter

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I can never know someone’s heart so I would not be sure if someone is saved or not. I would not judge somebody.
Yet some here make an entire theology on the supposed child of God going back to full blown sinful living. I’m just trying to find a NT example of such a person.
 
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