Once Saved Always Saved....

[eldermike]

What makes one person better than another? How do I choose a good person? Are people actually believing that God keeps only the really good people? Who are they?

 

[SassySDA]

First of all, you would have to explain to me what, in your mind, "Once Saved Always Saved" ACTUALLY means. Not theoretically. I also would need to know whether or not you believe the Ten Commandments are to be kept or forgotten about.

Once saved you needn't worry about your salvation ever again...unless you choose to let go of it, or turn from it.

I do not believe that "works" will get anyone into heaven, but I do KNOW that those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, and ask Him to live within them, take them to do His will, will automatically follow Him, and their "works" will be evident of that.

As one of the other posters said, before I am even asked..."no, I cannot see inside of another's heart", but I DO KNOW, that if Jesus lives there, then the evil and bad things I see them partaking in all of the time, WOULDN'T be going on, but they are. You see, this is where "works" comes into play. You can be as good as gold all of your life, but without acknowledging the sacrifice our Lord made for us, accepting the fact that He rose from the dead after having died for our sins on that cross, and ACCEPTING the gift of salvation...we are not going to enter the kingdom of heaven. Anymore than believing in the latter, but continuing to sin and break the commandments daily, is going to.

Jesus speaks of keeping His commandments numerous times throughout the gospels, too many times to quote here. "If ye love me keep my commandments", and "if ye break one, ye break them all", tells me all I need to know folks.

This is where I get confused with the people who yell about OSAS. Just what is it you are trying to tell those of us who might contradict you on that? Because it sounds like you are saying that once we are "saved", accept Jesus into our life as our personal savior, we don't have to WORRY about those commandments anymore...and it's there I will strongly differ with you, if you are.

So lets start with you explaining to me just exactly what you think OSAS literally means.

 

[eldermike]

So lets start with you explaining to me just exactly what you think OSAS literally means.

Once saved, always saved. Salvation is a work of God, only. God calls, God changes the heart, the heart responds.

Some say that this means you can sin all you want to. That's correct, but the catch is; you don't want to sin, your wanter has been changed. We will still sin, but not a lifestyle of sin.

Peter drank from the cup, ate the bread had his feet washed by the creator of the universe and still denied he even knew Him. Was he lost? Or did Jesus come back and ask Him who is your First Love?

In John 8 Jesus said no slave will enter the kingdom of heaven. Who is a slave? The law is works, it is slavery.

 

[MeekOne]

to be honest with you i dont believe once saved always saved, there is more than just believing in GOD, and accepting christ in your life. you have to truly live by the gospel,serve him and live your life through him, jesus never asked us to be perfect, but to strive for perfection, so in this i believe you have to walk the walk with christ,that way you never have to worry or question your salvation. if we could be saved and live any way we felt was in our best interest, than the gospel of christ wouldn't stand for anything.Remeber always go back to your word (bible)and it
says that when we are born again we are a new creature in christ.

Thank you for being honest. Actually to believe the way that you do, you must always be honest. Never, ever tell a lie, even if it hurts someone's feelings or if you can get in deep trouble behind it, because to believe the way you do, if you lie, you may go to hell behind it. Instead of resting your assurance of salvation in Christ and the grace He gave us on the cross, these beliefs that your good works will get you to Heaven are completely errant, and I will tell you why:

1 Corinthians 3:10 - 15

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:21-30
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


The Galatian Christians are examples of people who became confused about their salvation. They began in God's Grace, but were attempting to finish in their own works. Paul first preached the Gospel in the region of Galatia. However, false teachers came behind him and tried to turn these new Christians from Grace to the Law and Works. They used guilt and fear as tactics to turn the Galatians from the Gospel of Grace. They used the basics of works-preaching to draw Christians back to symbols of slavery, like circumcision. Here's some of what Paul told them about this.

Galatians 1:7-8 (The Darby Translation)

Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Galatians 2:19-21 (The Darby Translation)

For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing.

Galatians 3:1-3 (NLT)

Oh, foolish Galatians! What magician has cast an evil spell on you? For you used to see the meaning of Jesus Christ's death as clearly as though I had shown you a signboard with a picture of Christ dying on the cross. Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ. Have you lost your senses? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?

The answer, of course, is that God gives His Spirit to us because we believe what we hear, not because we observe the law.

Paul builds his argument to a crescendo of logic, then moves in for the convincing finish:

Galatians 5:1-8

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

Did these Galatian Christians who were moving toward the law lose their salvation? No. Paul never told them they were lost in transgressions and sins. He never spoke to them as lost souls. Before Paul began his remarks about what they were doing, he addressed the churches in Galatia: "Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." Later, he wrote: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus ... So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir." Paul also wrote: "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." Paul addressed the Galatian Christians as brothers in the Body of Christ, not as people who had been saved but lost their salvation.

But Paul said those who were trying to be justified by law had been alienated from Christ; they had fallen away from Grace. Doesn't that mean they lost their salvation? The way one can lose their salvation is to never believe fully in the grace the Lord has given.

Paul is dealing with the most severe issue in a Christian's life. We are saved by Grace through faith, and that is not from ourselves. It is God's Gift to us. It is not by our works. It is not by our keeping of the law or any other moral code. It is all of God; all of Grace.

Paul does not hold back on this issue. "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." Paul invokes his own name here. He is speaking as the Apostle of Grace of the Almighty God. He is not kidding around. As he told the Galatians earlier in his letter to them: "I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." That's powerful! That's dynamic! The Galatians were fooling around with the wrong person. Paul was God's spokesperson. God told Paul and Paul told them. Simple and to the point: "if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." The Greek reads: ean peritemnesthe Christos humas ouden ophelesei . It means that the Galatians profited nothing from their relationship with Christ if they depend on circumcision for their relationship to God. Christ comes to us in only one way: freely. A Christian cannot add anything to their salvation by adding to Christ. Christ is complete. He is Everything. Christ is all and all. How can anyone "add" to completion? How can something that's complete be made more complete? That's why Paul addressed them "You foolish Galatians. Who has bewitched you?" Paul had presented Christ clearly as "crucified." He went on to ask: "After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" That's foolish. That's ridiculous. Anyone who would try that is really saying Christ is not enough. They put Christ aside and try to "add" to what God gave them freely. God won't do it. God won't add anything to Christ. Christ's death on the Cross is the finished work of God. There's not anything else anyone can do to add to that.

False teachers had come into the region of Galatia and whipped up a firestorm of concern among the Christians. Those teachers told the Galatians that they needed to add something to Christ. They said the Christians needed circumcision and the Law. Paul reacted swiftly and decisively.

Galatians 6:7-18 (NKJV)

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand! As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

Paul is dealing with a fundamental principle of Grace Living. We begin with the Grace of God. We live by the Grace of God. We finish in the Grace of God. When someone tries to convince us that we need to add something to God's Grace, they "cut in" on us and keep us from obeying the Truth. What is the Truth? All we need is Grace! We will never need anything else. Trying to add something to God's Grace is disobeying God's Truth. What Christian would want to do that?

The "value" Christ has to us is that He is Everything to us. We have nothing without Him. We are nothing without Him. He is our Beginning and our End. He is Everything between.

The Galatians who were trying to be justified by Law had been "alienated" from Christ. The Greek reads: katergethete apo Christou hoitines en nomo dikaiousthe . "Aliented" (katergethete ) means "to render inactive, idle, useless, ineffective." That is a sad, but true, statement about Christians who try to add something to their salvation "by grace through faith." The action of adding something to something that cannot be added to brings a Christian to a position of being inactive, idle, useless, ineffective. That is the terrible story of millions of Christians today and through centuries in the past. What a waste. Christians who do not grasp the Truth of God's Grace are of little use in God's wonderful plans. Slavery does not set people free. Freedom sets people free.

The action of a Christian trying to be justified by the Law means they "have fallen away from grace." The Greek reads: tes charitos exepesate . The Galatian Christians had "fallen out or away" from where they had begun. It's the farthest distance from the Truth a Christian can get and still be a Christian. Christ's death is of no value to their lives anymore because they've tried to add to His death; an impossible task. Their lives are useless and ineffective. They've fallen away from that which saved them: the Grace of God.

Paul speaks in the harshest of terms because he was dealing with the worst of conditions for God's Children of Grace. He warns them about the foolishness of their actions in a strong way. Paul was serious because God was serious about what the Galatians were doing to themselves.

Christians aren't perfect. We continue to live in the flesh until God calls us to Heaven. Sin does tempt Christians. Christians do sin. The difference is we don't have to sin. We don't have to give in to temptation. We don't have to succumb to wickedness. We don't have to enjoy sinning. We have a choice. Lost people do not have a choice. They gratify the cravings of their sinful nature and follow its desires and thoughts. They are objects of God's wrath. Paul presented the differences clearly.

Galatians 5:16-18

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[MeekOne]

How beautiful and understanding on God's part! He knows Christians continue to live in the flesh. He knows we battle with the sinful nature. He understands the conflict within us and that we sometimes don't do what we want to do. "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law." How Gracious of God! He removed us from being under the Law when He saved us by His Grace. As Paul told the Roman Christians:

Romans 6:14

For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Every Christian should thank God right now that He removed us from under the Law and placed us under Grace! Life is so much easier under Grace. Yes, sin will tempt us, but, no, we don't have to sin. If we do sin, we are led by the Spirit and not under Law. Law carries penalties for disobedience. Grace has no penalties. God forgave us once, at the beginning of our salvation, and we don't have to be forgiven again. He was hung on the cross ONE time, and only ONE time. We are not "under Law." We are "under Grace!"

Christians who understand being under Grace don't want to sin. They are so full of love and thankfulness to God, they want to please Him always. They don't want to do anything to displease Him. Understanding God's Grace means we understand being "in Christ" and being "led by the Spirit." What does that do for us?

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

The "fruit of the Spirit" is GraceLife. It is the life God placed within us the moment we believed in Him. It is a life God gave to us to live eternally. Nothing or nobody can take that away from us. Praise the Lord!!!

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:22-26
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

ALL of our sins are forgiven and forgotten when we rest our faith on the blood of Jesus Christ." It is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone as the anchor and way that a person receives vindication and reconciliation to God. This means that ALL merits of good works of every kind fall to nothingness. Salvation by grace alone is the entire message of Paul’s letter to the church at Ephesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

By grace you have been saved!

Ephesians 2:5, 8
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The original language is: "By grace have you been completely saved, with the present result that you are in a saved state of being." In this tense it speaks of a completed action that took place in the past time and has continuing effects in the present time.

Did you note that Paul did not say, "you are being saved" (present tense)? Paul explains it as continuous and permanent. Paul is not content just to show that the action is completed in the past and the results are in present time. He wants to display the endurance of the result of salvation through one's present time.

Let's translate that:By grace have you have been saved in the past completely, with the result that you are in a state of salvation which persists through present time.

Once one has been truly saved, they are truly saved forever!

It is not an indefinite or uncertain state of salvation! We cannot save ourselves. It is entirely due to God. He is the sole source and ground of our salvation!

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We are made into a new creation, not new in time, but new as to form, quality, character and nature. Being born again is being resurrected from the dead old person we used to be and enables a Christian to pass from death into life everlasting. In everlasting life, we accumulate treasures by the works we do in Christ’s name:
Rev 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Being born into the family is an irreversible act in time. As you were born into your physical family, and cannot undo that, you cannot undo your spiritual birth into the family of God. You can be rebellious, you can run down to the courthouse, change your name, and claim you are not part of that family, but you will never be able to undo your birth no matter how hard you try to deny it. So too with God, you may turn your back in rebellion, but you can never undo the second birth.

There is sound evidence of this in scripture in support of the truth that once a member of the family, they are truly a member of the family for all time. I like to point to John 3:18. "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (never) believed in the name of the Son of God."

What that is saying is, if you are not saved, you have NEVER been saved. That precludes the possibility of someone who is not saved from having ever been saved before. Either you've been born into the family of God or you haven't. This is no way to get unborn back out of the family of God and become lost again. God isn't a probation officer, He is our Saviour. When He saves you, you're saved for all time.

That doesn't mean you won't get punished for future disobedience, but the punishment is never getting kicked out of the family. This is why it says in Hebrews 6 you can only experience the new birth/obtain salvation a single time; and why it says in I Corinthians that the rebellious child may have to pay for his rebellion with his mortal life, but his soul will be preserved.

There is only one unforgivable sin: refusing to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, also known as, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Philipians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Please examine what do these scriptures should mean to you.

John 10:29-30
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

Salvation is secure as far as plucking one out of the Father's hand.

2 Timothy 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Funny thing, when the scriptures tell me that HE is able (that would be God is able) to keep those who have committed themselves to Him until the end cometh, I believe the scriptures.

Hebrews 7:25
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

^ Paul said it too!

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I KNOW that I have eternal life. It is such a good thing to KNOW,....come on in, the water is fine.

John 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

That which the Father has SEALED, stays sealed.
Paul said that everything is permissible to a beliver, but not everything is beneficial:

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Wonder what he meant by that? Could it mean that he was free in Christ? Free to follow Him and if by chance he sinned, it was lawful because he was no longer under the law? He also went on to say that it not all things are profitable, so therefore, who in Christ would want to sin? The Holy Spirit is within, He is the one who came to fulfill the law.

Lets take the passage of Paul's sin in Romans 7....he was struggling before he had the Holy Spirit:

Romans 7:14:25
For we know that the law is spiritual: but *I* am fleshly, sold under sin. For that which I do, I do not own: for not what I will, this I do; but what I hate, this I practise. But if what I do not will, this I practise, I consent to the law that [it is] right. Now then [it is] no longer *I* [that] do it, but the sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, good does not dwell: for to will is there with me, but to do right [I find] not. For I do not practise the good that I will; but the evil I do not will, that I do. But if what *I* do not will, this I practise, [it is] no longer *I* [that] do it, but the sin that dwells in me. I find then the law upon *me* who will to practise what is right, that with *me* evil is there. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring in opposition to the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which exists in my members. O wretched man that I [am]! who shall deliver me out of this body of death? I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then *I* *myself* with the mind serve God's law; but with the flesh sin's law.

Paul let us know that we are no longer under the law:

Romans 7:4-6
So that, my brethren, *ye* also have been made dead to the law by the body of the Christ, to be to another, who has been raised up from among [the] dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh the passions of sins, which [were] by the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit to death; but now we are clear from the law, having died in that in which we were held, so that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

What does Paul say right after these passages???

Well, I'll tell you...

Romans 8:1-2
[There is] then now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and of death.
Funny thing, I choose to believe the scriptures when they tell me that once I have been saved, I have been saved FOREVER. Can you see the scriptures for what they say yet?

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Why is it that so many refuse to believe Jesus? When he says the saved will not come into condemnation, I believe Him. Why can't all His children?

John 6:28-40
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 11:25-26...Believest thou this???


Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

All we have to do is truly know Him......ONCE.

 

[GODSCHILD333]

Ok so as a follower of Jesus what sins, if I commit them, cause me to loose my salvation?

okay, i got one- when you give up on christ,when you start to turn to the world and not christ, surely we all fall short and we will sin, but i feel once you've made up in your mind you dont want christ in your life at that point, then you've answered your own question

 

[brotherjim]

. . .
Romans 6:14

For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. . . .

Whoever,

God is not loquacious. He is terse in His writing of the Books and Epistles of the Holy Word, for several reasons, chief among them so thst "seeing they will not see," for salvation MUST be by Grace and Faith only, so "that no flesh [can] glory in His Presence/Sight," so that "no one can [rightfully] boast."

So we find in the Word, then, as example, the word "works" being used both as a denounciation, leaven of the Pharisees and Saduccees, but also a "works" needed for salvation (James; "faith w/o works is dead"). So of course God has left it up yo the reader as to which works is being referred to in whatever passage of Scripture, and that often according to the idols/impurities remaining in our "Christian" heart, things such as rebellion, refusal to submit to authority, refusal to love all people unconditionally, etc. etc.

Likewise, we find the same terseness applied to the word "law" throughout the New Testament. In some passages, such as that quoted at the beginning of this post, we as Christians are declared out from the Law, but in other passages we find that eternal salvation is only given to those in whom God's perfect Love has been established (2 Jn. 2:3-5; Luke 10:25-28, 1 Jn. 4:16-18; Rev. 22:14; etc.).

We also find the establishment of New Testament Law:

"The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:2);
"The Law of [the] mind" (Rom. 7:21-25);
The Law of the conscience;
The Laws of Love ("A New Commandment I [Jesus] give you"; etc.);
The Law of Sowing and Reaping ("God is not mocked");
Etc.

So of course, just as with the word "works," whenever we come to Scriptures referring to "law," we are dependant upon God's Spirit and the purity of our heart, in determing whether the OT Law is being discussed, or the NT Law under which the Christian has been placed--or rather which God has attempted to place them by Grace.

All entities consisting of two or more beings, must have at their core, law: it is an existential truth of the universe, defining how the members are to relate to one another. Where there is no law, lawlessness always results.

God did not send Grace so that people can become Christians and continue to live in sin and yet inherit eternal Life anyway. Such a concept is ludicrous, except for someone seeking justification for their unrepentant heart (nothing personal implied by me).

See Rev. 22:14 for who alone will be allowed into the New World of Love God is presently preparing and will bring soon to replace this lawless one.

jim

 

[brotherjim]

Ok so as a follower of Jesus what sins, if I commit them, cause me to loose my salvation?

"Today, if you will hear His Voice, harden not your heart. . . ."

 

[MeekOne]

Whoever,

God is not loquacious. He is terse in His writing of the Books and Epistles of the Holy Word, for several reasons, chief among them so thst "seeing they will not see," for salvation MUST be by Grace and Faith only, so "that no flesh [can] glory in His Presence/Sight," so that "no one can [rightfully] boast."

So we find in the Word, then, as example, the word "works" being used both as a denounciation, leaven of the Pharisees and Saduccees, but also a "works" needed for salvation (James; "faith w/o works is dead"). So of course God has left it up yo the reader as to which works is being referred to in whatever passage of Scripture, and that often according to the idols/impurities remaining in our "Christian" heart, things such as rebellion, refusal to submit to authority, refusal to love all people unconditionally, etc. etc.

Likewise, we find the same terseness applied to the word "law" throughout the New Testament. In some passages, such as that quoted at the beginning of this post, we as Christians are declared out from the Law, but in other passages we find that eternal salvation is only given to those in whom God's perfect Love has been established (2 Jn. 2:3-5; Luke 10:25-28, 1 Jn. 4:16-18; Rev. 22:14; etc.).

We also find the establishment of New Testament Law:

"The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:2);
"The Law of [the] mind" (Rom. 7:21-25);
The Law of the conscience;
The Laws of Love ("A New Commandment I [Jesus] give you"; etc.);
The Law of Sowing and Reaping ("God is not mocked");
Etc.

So of course, just as with the word "works," whenever we come to Scriptures referring to "law," we are dependant upon God's Spirit and the purity of our heart, in determing whether the OT Law is being discussed, or the NT Law under which the Christian has been placed--or rather which God has attempted to place them by Grace.

All entities consisting of two or more beings, must have at their core, law: it is an existential truth of the universe, defining how the members are to relate to one another. Where there is no law, lawlessness always results.

God did not send Grace so that people can become Christians and continue to live in sin and yet inherit eternal Life anyway. Such a concept is ludicrous, except for someone seeking justification for their unrepentant heart (nothing personal implied by me).

See Rev. 22:14 for who alone will be allowed into the New World of Love God is presently preparing and will bring soon to replace this lawless one.

jim

You and I both know that the Bible, being God's Word, does not contradict itself. There are passages which sometimes seem to contradict one another, but upon closer examination, they are found not to. There are many passages which indicate that true salvation can not be lost (John 6, Romans 8 for examples). Let me explain it this way, you see, there are two ways of names being missing. Ones who were never written in the book (unbelievers) and those who are blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. There is more than one book that keeps records. Only one is the Lamb's book of life. Then, there is the other books.

Those who were "blotted" out had been written in. Those who don't believe were never written in. There are two different things going on.

Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

The dead were judged according to what was found in "the books." Not the book of life. The book of life is for one who believes. Unbelievers were never blotted out. The other books were a record of all men's works. They were only judged according to what they had done (works).

Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Now, we too, are judged according to our works! But we remain saved even if we mess every work up! For it is written:

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (New International Version)

"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

Why can our "name" be blotted out? The Greek word "name" can also mean "title." The unbelievers names are never blotted out. For they were never written in to begin with. They will be judged from the the books of works. But, Jesus is King of kings, and Lord of lords. God has in his perfect will assigned us to reign with him. We have been given our title in the Lamb's book of life. If our title is blotted out, we lose all rewards! We do not get to reign with Christ!

" It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

The mistake many make, is to not know that the Greek word for name, is also used for "title." Jesus name is Jesus Christ. Yet, his title is Lord of Lords. In many translations it says that his name is " King of Kings and Lord of Lords." The correct translation would say that is a title given Him.

Revelation 19:16
"On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."

It was common practice in that day for Royalty to have his name, and, or title, on his outer garment! We can lose our tile for royalty, but we can not lose our salvation from Hell!

" It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

This is a very easy subject to become confused about. I have been blessed with dedicated, skilled teachers, who understand Hebrew and Greek, and the meaning of words in the day they were written. I thank God for them.

 

[homewardbound]

The condition of a person's heart when they first accept Christ is the key. There are approximately 18 inches from one's head to one's heart, but this can be 18 inches from Heaven. If they have truly accepted Him with all of their heart, they are truly saved, and will not so easily lose their salvation as some put it. Once someone has been truly saved in the Lord's good soil, they stay planted.

So what do you say to those who thought they were saved, but eventually question whether or not the seed landed in fertile soil and are afraid that they have lost or could lose their salvation? Is salvation then for those lucky enough to have great faith? Maybe their heart wasn't entirely where is needed to be when they first accepted Christ. Do they need to be re-saved so that the seed might move from rocky or sandy soil to more fertile ground? I know several people who have genuine concerns about this, which is one reason I'm so interested in the concept of OSAS.

 

[homewardbound]

The basic questions: If a person is born again into a life that has no death, how can they die?

If they entered that life through free will, could they not also choose to leave it?

If eternal life is the gift to those that believe in Jesus as the lamb of God, as Lord, as God, then how can that life end?

The only way I can think of is if they choose to no longer believe in Jesus.

If God sent His Son to die for my sins, did it work or did He fail, is my sin still an issue sill separating me from God?

He most certainly didn't fail. I would think the only sin that separates us from God is deliberate, unrepented sin.

 

[MeekOne]

So what do you say to those who thought they were saved, but eventually question whether or not the seed landed in fertile soil and are afraid that they have lost or could lose their salvation? Is salvation then for those lucky enough to have great faith? Maybe their heart wasn't entirely where is needed to be when they first accepted Christ. Do they need to be re-saved so that the seed might move from rocky or sandy soil to more fertile ground? I know several people who have genuine concerns about this, which is one reason I'm so interested in the concept of OSAS.

Hopefully they would want to rededicate their life to following Him, and I would give them assurance and lead them to the scriptures for encouragment. What I would say to them is this:

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


1 John 5:11-13
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

2 Timothy 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Then I would ask them if they are ready to rededicate their life:

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Luke 15:17-20
And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

1 Peter 2:25
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Then I would encourage them to find a good bible believing church as the scriptures guide us to do:

Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

That is what my advice would be. I hope this helps.

 

[Smidlee]

When I was saved I knew very little about God or the Bible as I've never been to church. (just enough to accept Jesus Christ) I didn't even know the ten commandments (I realize now I know more than I realize then) but I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour.
I started telling other of what happen to me in which some told to stay saved I need to keep the commandments. I know something happen to me beyond words but I was very disappointed when I heard I had to keep the commandments. first I didn't even know them and second I know myself well enough to know there no way I could keep them even though I now have a desire to do them. I told God I thought all I had to do was to trust Christ to get to heaven so Lord you can have back your salvation. maybe i'll accept your salvation right before I die. So i gave up on God yet amazing he didn't give up on me. The fact was I was different now and still had a deep desire to serve him. A year later I return to God and ask God to saved me again yet this time wasn't like the first. (God already did that)
I look back now and realize I knew more about myself and God than those who told me I would lose my salvation if I didn't keep those commandments.
I fully trusted in Jesus Christ for my salvation and nothing else. As I look back now I could see God helping to grow to know him better through all the confusion. No matter how weak my faith, or how few my works are, and even through my unbelief God didn't forsake me. So if I get to heaven it won't be because of me or anything I've done but what Jesus Christ has done and Him alone.

 

[Andyman_1970]

okay, i got one- when you give up on christ,when you start to turn to the world and not christ, surely we all fall short and we will sin, but i feel once you've made up in your mind you dont want christ in your life at that point, then you've answered your own question

I would say that if someone truly does "turn from Jesus" as you say, they were never saved to begin with.

So again, what sins can cause me to loose my salvation?

 

[Athanasian Creed]

True, geniune salvation results in a changed life. There are plenty of "ifs" regarding salvation, that to me means it is conditional upon continued obedience to Christ and His Word - "IF you love Me, keep My commandments", "IF a man love Me, he will keep My words", "IF a man abide NOT in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered..."(if one was, at a point in time, a branch, that means he abided in Christ and belonged to Him) Paul also makes mention of a person "holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:" That speaks of a person exercising free will to reject/disobey God after once having saving faith. Etc., etc., etc.

I do, however, believe that if one continues to abide in Christ that God will enable that person to withstand all the forces of the enemy and that nothing will be able, in that case, to seperate them from God and His love - BUT it is conditional upon remaining in Christ as He commands us to do !


Ray


P.S. Also, in the parable of the Prodical Son, the father made a move in the direction of the son only when the son FIRST made the move BACK to the father - then, in response, the father ran towards the son, seeking reconciliation.

 

[brotherjim]

. . . I do, however, believe that if one continues to abide in Christ that God will enable that person to withstand all the forces of the enemy and that nothing will be able, in that case, to seperate them from God and His love - BUT it is conditional upon remaining in Christ as He commands us to do !

Exactly.

The Scripture you refer to--"conquerors" (KJV) being from the same Greek word elsewhere translated "overcomers"--refers to God's Love for us, not our for Him, which John 14 says is only a genuine Love for Him IF we are living in obedience to His Commandments of Love and Faith (by Grace and spirit only, of course--Eph. 2:9). BUT a covenant is an agreement between two or more parties, EACH having an obligation to fulfill--in the Christian's case, "owe no man nothing, but to Love him."

Because quite true is the old adage, "rules were made to be broken":

We are released from serving the Law via some dead letter of it, in order that we be enabled by Grace to serve the NT Law "in newness of (S)spirit." (And NOT so that we can continue in sin and still inherit eternal life, as is the abuse of Grace of many.)

brother jim

 

[Andyman_1970]

P.S. Also, in the parable of the Prodical Son, the father made a move in the direction of the son only when the son FIRST made the move BACK to the father - then, in response, the father ran towards the son, seeking reconciliation.

I love that parable, but the son never stopped being the son of the father even though he left. Technically that's a parable about Israel turing their backs on God, not about the salvation of the individual.............if we want to be historically correct about it.

 

[homewardbound]

Once saved, always saved. Salvation is a work of God, only. God calls, God changes the heart, the heart responds.

Does OSAS hold that only those who God calls receive irrevocable salvation? Or does it apply also to those who truly seek Him?

Some say that this means you can sin all you want to. That's correct, but the catch is; you don't want to sin, your wanter has been changed. We will still sin, but not a lifestyle of sin.

Would it then follow that a person who claims OSAS, if they continue in a grossly sinful lifestyle (which I agree would be totally inconsistent with a changed heart) was never really saved in the first place?

There's no question that Christ's blood covers all sins of those who are saved, including those we continue to commit every day, and in that sense I can see where once saved, always saved applies. But isn't it possible for someone to reject God's gift of saving grace and deny his or her inheritance?

 

[eldermike]

Does OSAS hold that only those who God calls receive irrevocable salvation? Or does it apply also to those who truly seek Him?

I believe that God has spoken to every heart. I believe that some will never respond or will respond improperly (a false god). Truely seeking is a different thing. It means seeking truth. Jesus said He was the Truth. Anyone seeking Jesus is responding to God. Remember: We believe by hearing the Truth. That process requires a worker, a preacher, a teacher, someone to "go" and make diciples.

Would it then follow that a person who claims OSAS, if they continue in a grossly sinful lifestyle (which I agree would be totally inconsistent with a changed heart) was never really saved in the first place?

Yes

There's no question that Christ's blood covers all sins of those who are saved, including those we continue to commit every day, and in that sense I can see where once saved, always saved applies. But isn't it possible for someone to reject God's gift of saving grace and deny his or her inheritance?

Remember the rich man. Nothing scares me more than someone coming to me under conviction and asking questions. Jesus said: If a man should come after me, let Him deny himself, pick up his cross and follow Me". Yes a man can keep himself and deny Christ in the process. Remember Peter denied Christ but Jesus came back to Peter and asked him who was his first love. Jesus knew it was Jesus that Peter loved.

This is not easy to explain. There will always be a verse that can turn this one way or another.

The very reason for salvation is the begining of understanding this. God's purpose if to glorify Himself. My salvation brings God glory. If I did even one thing to earn it, I would boast about it and glorify myself. God gets the glory, not me.

 

[homewardbound]

I believe that God has spoken to every heart. I believe that some will never respond or will respond improperly (a false god). Truely seeking is a different thing. It means seeking truth. Jesus said He was the Truth. Anyone seeking Jesus is responding to God. Remember: We believe by hearing the Truth. That process requires a worker, a preacher, a teacher, someone to "go" and make diciples.


Yes

Remember the rich man. Nothing scares me more than someone coming to me under conviction and asking questions. Jesus said: If a man should come after me, let Him deny himself, pick up his cross and follow Me". Yes a man can keep himself and deny Christ in the process. Remember Peter denied Christ but Jesus came back to Peter and asked him who was his first love. Jesus knew it was Jesus that Peter loved.

This is not easy to explain. There will always be a verse that can turn this one way or another.

The very reason for salvation is the begining of understanding this. God's purpose if to glorify Himself. My salvation brings God glory. If I did even one thing to earn it, I would boast about it and glorify myself. God gets the glory, not me.

Thanks...much appreciated.