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As I have said in other posts in this thread, nothing could be farther from the truth. Salvation is a gift of faith by God's grace.
What I have said is that the process of salvation is inherently cooperative. God offers it and men accept (or reject) it. This Protestant straw man of "works-based righteousness" is rather poorly conceived since it's typically leveled against Catholics... and Catholics would (or should) be the first to say that one cannot earn salvation. Why Protestants struggle with the concept of Catholics not believing in "works-based salvation" is a mystery to me.
But there are many things I don't understand; the French, for example.
Nevertheless, the point remains that my Church does not teach "salvation by works" and thus your attempt to frame the matter as though it does is so incorrect as to be borderline slanderous.
To bring the issue somewhat back to topical relevance, what my Church does teach is that it is possible for one to fall out of a state of grace. When such happens to somebody, he must repent and confess his sin(s).
That idea, if taken to its logical conclusion, would tend to vitiate the entire purpose of forums like CF, would it not? Nevertheless, if you find my posts bothersome, I would understand if you declined to reply to them anymore.
I am using a Socratic dialectic designed to prompt those with what I believe to be wrong doctrine to examine their doctrine in light of a question encapsulating their views. The dialogue resulting from that could potentially help them recognize their doctrine as flawed. There is also the possibility, however remote, that my mind could be changed.
In short, I see no harm in an exchange of ideas in this matter... particularly considering the fact that I'm not the one who started this thread and issued a challenge to those with a different opinion to explain why they believe as they do.
You seem to be referring to total depravity here. The "T" in TULIP. This has some relevance to this thread so I believe this is a worthwhile tangent to follow.
The Council of Trent addressed total depravity in On Justification with "If any one saith, that, since Adam's sin, the free will of man is lost and extinguished... let him be anathema." The Church affirms that man has free will as a crucial element in our being created in God's image. Free will may be tainted on some level or another by the Fall, of course, but it nevertheless still exists.
I find the logic behind the Catholic Church's pronouncement in the Council of Trent to be quite sound. Indeed, I had become less and less inclined to express belief in total depravity for quite a while prior to converting to Catholicism. The reason I stopped believing in it is because it didn't bear much similarity to observable reality.
For example, a casual glance at my American society shows me that mankind, though inclined toward sin, is still nevertheless capable of doing objective good: homeless shelters, charities, food drives, etc. These actions are undertaken both by Christians and non-Christians alike. And yet, total depravity holds that man is hopelessly inclined toward sin and cannot freely choose the alternative. Were that to be so, however, it stands to reason that "charity" would be so rare as to be a fictional concept. And yet, charitable actions and agencies dot the landscape. Now, a logical counter-argument for that is God's intervention in the lives of faithful Christians realigns them toward righteousness.. However, that rebuttal, while somewhat persuasive, does not (and, indeed, cannot) account for works of mercy and charity by avowedly non-Christian entities.
Thus, either total depravity needs to be redefined (which I expect will happen in this thread now owing to my dismantling of it) or else it needs to be rejected. I have chosen to reject it.
As I well understand that there is no message so simple that the conveying of it won't lead to misunderstanding, allow me to emphasize that I am not arguing that all men are inherently morally righteous. On the contrary, I suspect that most people's behavior is sometimes (or often?) less-than-morally righteous. Whatever our ability to perform acts of charity and mercy, we still have a tendency to sin. I am not arguing the contrary.
I am, however, agreeing with my Church in saying that however much the Fall has affected mankind's free will, we still retain the free will to do good... or to commit sin.
And to tie this tangent back to the purpose of this thread, that same free will can lead us into true fellowship with God one day... and true rebellion against God the next day. Repentance, therefore, should be our constant companion, and confession of sins should be our ongoing habit.
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