Once Saved Always Saved: True, False, or Misrepresented?

[allykelly07]

She hasn't. I hope she does and I hope she responds to my post here.

Acts 20:28-30
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Matthew 7:15
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

A covenant is kept by two people, there is God, who is never changing, and there is us, who are feeble minded, and easily lead astray, if we are not on guard.

2 Peter 3:16-18
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

Be on guard that you may not fall from your secure position? That secure position in the hands of God? Be on guard that you may not fall from it.

 

[CityOfGod]

Be on guard that you may not fall from your secure position? That secure position in the hands of God? Be on guard that you may not fall from it.

That's no response. It's the same dribble.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Well then I guess His sheep don't follow Him. Oh, wait, but since that promise of never being plucked out of the Father's hand in John 10:28 applies to the sheep that follow Him, maybe there is no such promise for us?

That's not all.God promised that whoever believes and has faith in His Son shall be saved (John 1:12-13; 3:16-18; 3:36; 4:14; 5:24; 6:26-27; 6:35-40; 6:47-51; 6:54; 10:27-29; 11:25-26; 12:44-46; 14:6; 17:1-5; Acts 4:12; Romans 1:16-17; 3:16-18; 3:21-26; 4:2-6; 5:1-11; 6:22-23; 8:1; 8:26-35; 9:31-33; 10:9-10; 11:6; 1 Corinthians 1:4-9; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:17-19; 5:21; Galatians 2:16; 2:19-21; 3:1-9; Ephesians 1:7-14; 2:4-13; 4:30; Colossians 1:13-14; 2:10-15; 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10; Titus 1:2; 3:4-7; Hebrews 2:17; 7:27; 9:26; 10:1-22; 1 Peter 1:18-21; 2:24; 3:18; 1 John 2:1-25; 4:9-10; 5:9-13; 5:20). God also promised that He will justify them because of their faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:21-26, 5:1-11, 10:9-10; Ephesians 1:7-10, 2:4-10; Galatians 3:21-25; 1 Peter 1:3-9; 1 John 5:9-13, 20). The Gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16-17; 1 Corinthians 1:18), and we are justified by our faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:21-26; 5:1-11). We are no longer under God's wrath (John 3:18; 3:36; Romans 1:18-32), because He no longer appoints us to His wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9-10).

Scripture is very clear that salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalm 3:8; Jonah 2:9; Revelation 7:10). And Scripture clearly affirms that a true and genuine believer in the Lord Jesus Christ cannot be cast out (John 6:37), lost (John 6:39) or snatched out of the hand of Jesus or out of the hand of God (John 10:27-30). This is because "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:16-18). It is His will that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and Jesus Himself will raise him up on the last day (John 6:40). The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16-17) and has faith in Jesus Christ (John 1:12-13; Romans 3:21-26, 5:1-2, 5:8-11; 8:28-30, 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 1:4-9, 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:3-5, 3:21-25; 5:1-6; Ephesians 1:7-10, 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-7; 1 John 5:9-13). There is no condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1).

In Christ, we are born again (John 3:3-7), redeemed (Colossians 1:13-14), justified (Romans 3:21-26; 5:1-11), forgiven (Ephesians 1:7-10), and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30), all because of God's grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) demonstrated to us through the cross (Romans 5:8). We were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:18-21), and we have been justified by His blood (Romans 3:21-26, 5:1-11, 10:9-10; Ephesians 1:7-10, 2:4-10; Galatians 3:21-25; 1 Peter 1:3-9; 1 John 5:9-13, 20). We are a new creation in Him (2 Corinthians 5:17), freed from sin (Romans 6:18) and condemnation (Romans 8:1), and we now have eternal life through Him (1 John 5:13). He now lives in us (Galatians 2:20), giving us the strength to live for Him (Philippians 4:13). There is nothing that can separate us from Him (Romans 8:35-39) or snatch us out of His hand (John 10:28-29).It is God Himself who will keep us from stumbling, and present us faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24) and to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:14).
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]* Scriptural References: Jesus' words, Scriptural References 1, Scriptural References 2 *

 

[allykelly07]

That's no response. It's the same dribble you've been delving out.

So the word of God is dribble, just because you refuse to believe what the entire word says, your only taking two verses, and building your whole thinking on those two or three verses.

 

[squint]

OSAS became 'popularized' through Protestantism, predominantly through Protestant Determinism. [not saying it didn't exist in the early churches]

What I think is rather thoroughly strange is the proponents of say, TULIP, one of the again popular branches of Determinism, don't really present OSAS. They have a very big caveat attached to their understanding that one must Persevere. And that they will not and can not know if they really are saved until their end in this life.

In other words their factual position was not that much different than classic orthodoxy to the extent that the most any believer could know was at best 'reasonable assurance.' Definitely no guarantee by any means. So did they really teach OSAS? They could not if their only available sight was 'reasonable assurance.'

OSAS as a definite known matter in more modern times is a fairly recent development that even a lot of Reformed Determinists remain varied on. And along with predetermined guaranteed salvation came also predetermined guaranteed eternal damnation. The first modern barrage of double predestination.

A person learns to appreciate the courses of doctrinal development over time. It does save a lot of study time to study the courses of reasoning of other scholars and how they may have eventually been eliminated or tweaked out by other sects.

Another thing I find strange is that every sect who has 'reasonable assurance' salvation by reason also has 'maybe not' salvation.

It is conceivable that believers who don't know if they are saved are not, and therefore their determinations 'may' be entirely wrong were their own 'maybe not's' prove to be real 'maybe not's.' Simple logic dictates their own understandings may apply to them on the maybe not end and in the process their own positions defeated entirely, even completely.

s

 

[CityOfGod]

So the word of God is dribble, just because you refuse to believe what the entire word says, your only taking two verses, and building your whole thinking on those two or three verses.

You still haven't given a response to those verses. I take it that you have none.

 

[Albion]

Ok, so all the scriptures I posted, you throw out the window, because you think it is my own interpretation?

I didn't do that. I was merely commenting on that one rather famous passage that is cited as proof of OSAS. I believe your interpretation (or shall we say the interpretation that you agree with?) was incorrect for the reason I explained. I didn't comment on the other verses and I readily admit that if we look at the whole of the NT, it's far from an easy call whether OSAS is true or not. But I am convinced that we can't just dismiss the possibility that it is.

 

[squint]

You still haven't given a response to those verses. I take it that you have none.

If you are sporting an RCC logo you agree with allykelly07. They don't have OSAS. Neither do any orthodox.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

So the word of God is dribble, just because you refuse to believe what the entire word says, your only taking two verses, and building your whole thinking on those two or three verses.

Of course the Word of God isn't. You have been presented with a multitude of Scripture, which I believe substantiate the eternal security of a true and genuine believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I hope you will address each of the Scriptures that have been presented to you (here for example).

 

[allykelly07]

That's not all. God promised that whoever believes and has faith in His Son shall be saved (John 1:12-13; 3:16-18; 3:36; 4:14; 5:24; 6:26-27; 6:35-40; 6:47-51; 6:54; 10:27-29; 11:25-26; 12:44-46; 14:6; 17:1-5; Acts 4:12; Romans 1:16-17; 3:16-18; 3:21-26; 4:2-6; 5:1-11; 6:22-23; 8:1; 8:26-35; 9:31-33; 10:9-10; 11:6; 1 Corinthians 1:4-9; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:17-19; 5:21; Galatians 2:16; 2:19-21; 3:1-9; Ephesians 1:7-14; 2:4-13; 4:30; Colossians 1:13-14; 2:10-15; 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10; Titus 1:2; 3:4-7; Hebrews 2:17; 7:27; 9:26; 10:1-22; 1 Peter 1:18-21; 2:24; 3:18; 1 John 2:1-25; 4:9-10; 5:9-13; 5:20). God also promised that He will justify them because of their faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:21-26, 5:1-11, 10:9-10; Ephesians 1:7-10, 2:4-10; Galatians 3:21-25; 1 Peter 1:3-9; 1 John 5:9-13, 20). The Gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16-17; 1 Corinthians 1:18), and we are justified by our faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:21-26; 5:1-11). We are no longer under God's wrath (John 3:18; 3:36; Romans 1:18-32), because He no longer appoints us to His wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9-10). There is no condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1).

Scripture is very clear that salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalm 3:8; Jonah 2:9; Revelation 7:10). And Scripture clearly affirms that a true and genuine believer in the Lord Jesus Christ cannot be cast out (John 6:37), lost (John 6:39) or snatched out of the hand of Jesus or out of the hand of God (John 10:27-30). This is because "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:16-18). It is His will that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and Jesus Himself will raise him up on the last day (John 6:40). The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16-17) and has faith in Jesus Christ (John 1:12-13; Romans 3:21-26, 5:1-2, 5:8-11; 8:28-30, 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 1:4-9, 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:3-5, 3:21-25; 5:1-6; Ephesians 1:7-10, 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-7; 1 John 5:9-13).

In Christ, we are born again (John 3:3-7), redeemed (Colossians 1:13-14), justified (Romans 3:21-26; 5:1-11), forgiven (Ephesians 1:7-10), and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30), all because of God's grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) demonstrated to us through the cross (Romans 5:8). We are a new creation in Him (2 Corinthians 5:17), freed from sin (Romans 6:18) and condemnation (Romans 8:1), and we now have eternal life through Him (1 John 5:13). He now lives in us (Galatians 2:20), giving us the strength to live for Him (Philippians 4:13). There is nothing that can separate us from Him (Romans 8:35-39) or snatch us out of His hand (John 10:28-29).
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]* Scriptural References: Jesus' words, Scriptural References 1, Scriptural References 2 *

Scripture speaks of being twice dead, a tree, being uprooted and cast off. All you try to do, is take all of the promise verses, without the conditional verses right there along with them. Believes, is a continual statement. IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Examine this verse carefully. It is chalk full of things that are mandatory for salvation/being welcomed into His kingdom.

2 Peter 1:5-11
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they
(those things in increasing measure)
will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[CityOfGod]

If you are sporting an RCC logo you agree with allykelly07.

No I don't agree with her. You can't tell me what I believe.

 

[allykelly07]

Paul, a great apostle of Christ, did not ever say these words, until he was at the end of his life. Unless you think of yourselves as a better example than Paul, then you might want to read the verses I have given, and this one too.

2 Timothy 4:6-8
6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

 

[squint]

No I don't agree with her. You can't tell me what I believe.

Hmmm? You don't have OSAS. She doesn't either.

but you disagree.

go figure

 

[CityOfGod]

Hmmm? You don't have OSAS. She doesn't either.

but you disagree.

go figure

Maybe if you actually read my post you would see that I do believe in OSAS.

 

[squint]

Maybe if you actually read my post you would see that I do believe in OSAS.

Are you not wearing an RCC logo in the upper left corner of every post?

 

[allykelly07]

Romans 11:11-23


11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

2 Timothy 2:10
10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

 

[CityOfGod]

Are you not wearing an RCC logo in the upper left corner of every post?

So what's your point? Do you think Catholics agree 100% all the time on everything?

 

[motherprayer]

So what's your point? Do you think Catholics agree 100% all the time on everything?

I'm beginning to wonder if Christians in GENERAL agree 100% all the time on ANYTHING lol

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

I'm beginning to wonder if Christians in GENERAL agree 100% all the time on ANYTHING lol

I don't think so.

(I'm somewhat of a Calvinist, attending a holiness Wesleyan Church with my husband and children)

 

[allykelly07]

Hebrews 6:1-6
6 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Now you say that falling away doesn't mean loss of salvation, but that verse clearly states that if someone falls away, they cannot be brought back to repentance, it would be like crucifying the son of God all over again.