Once Saved Always Saved: True, False, or Misrepresented?

[squint]

So you honestly don’t know that when one is baptized in Jesus name he or she is cleansed from all their sins?

That's all ya got from that post? lol. Can't say people are not entertaining.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Hebrews 4:16 isn't about saving grace, it is written to believers. You don't believe until you have been already given saving grace., and you have no more "choice" about it than you did in being born in the flesh.
Scripture tells me salvation is God's doing. Some people want to take credit for their own salvation. I wonder why?

"He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
The natural man is dead in spirit. Those who believe were dead until God in His mercy, while we were yet unrepentant sinners & enemies of Him, mercifully brought us to eternal life & the faith it brings.
1(Cor2:14)

Live & believe are not synonyms of trust & obey.
The kingdom of God is not a command.

Well said Rick. If our salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalm 3:8; Jonah 2:9; Revelation 7:10) and it is His power that will present us faultless before the presence of His glory (Romans 8:28-30;Jude 1:24-25), then how is it possible for us to lose our salvation and be eternally condemned after we have come to Christ? Is the Gospel not the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16)? If the Gospel is, in fact, the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, then how is possible for a true and genuine believer to suddenly stop believing and walk away from God when it is God Himself who sustains them, so that He may present them faultless before the presence of His glory? Why would God tell us that He will present us faultless before the presence of His glory if He allows us the ability to forfeit our own salvation (which is suppose to belong to Him in the first place), if He did not mean it? Was He lying to us?

 

[Giver]

Hebrews 4:16 isn't about saving grace, it is written to believers. You don't believe until you hasve been alredy given saving grace., and you have no more "choice" about it than you did in being born in the flesh.
Scripture tells me salvation is God's doing. Some people want to take credit for their own salvation. I wonder why?



"He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
The natural man is dead in spirit. Those who believe were dead until God in His mercy, while we were yet unrepentant sinners & enemies of Him, mercifully brought us to eternal life & the faith it brings.
1(Cor2:14)


Live & believe are not synonyms of trust & obey.
The kingdom of God is not a command.

I believe that if one truly believes in Jesus he or she will do as God tells them to do.

One can’t believe in God, and ignore what he told him or her to do.

Also people who sin only truly believe in him or her self, and the evil Satan leads them to do.

Such people who say they believe in Jesus and still sin believe the have eternal life because they say they believe in Jesus. These people have no proof of where they will spend that eternal life.

Scripture tells us one who sins will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

[Tangible]

Another perfectly good thread ruined by Perfectionism.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Nor does He repent of His gifts like the gift of showing mercy & giving eternal life to those who were His enemies. Salvation is about God's mercy, not man's performance. Performance earns rewards in heaven, not entrance therein.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 "11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

 

[Giver]

Another perfectly good thread ruined by Perfectionism.

No! Only ruined in your eyes. What ruined the thread in your eyes is the truth.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Another perfectly good thread ruined by Perfectionism.

It is written in Scripture that none are righteous, not even one (Romans 3:10-20). It is also written that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9). Therefore, I know the only goodness or righteousness within me is because of the grace of God (Ephesians 2:8-9) through my faith in His Son (Romans 3:21-26). Christ Jesus is my only righteousness, sanctification and redemption (1 Corinthians 1:30).

 

[Giver]

It is written in Scripture that none are righteous, not even one (Romans 3:10-20). It is also written that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9). Therefore, I know the only goodness or righteousness within me is because of the grace of God (Ephesians 2:8-9) through my faith in His Son (Romans 3:21-26). Christ Jesus is my only righteousness, sanctification and redemption (1 Corinthians 1:30).

<edit>

I don&#8217;t believe anyone was saying he or she was righteous through his or her own power or efforts.

It is only because Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit, and then through the guidance and grace given to one is he or she ever to become righteous.

But it is a sure indication that the Holy Spirit is not guiding one if he or she sins.

(Galatians 5:16)&#8220;Let me put it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger of yielding to self-indulgence....&#8221;.

(Ephesians 2-2) &#8220; As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.&#8221;

(Romans 6: 1-2) &#8220;What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

 

[allykelly07]

But I still don't know how you were trying to use that verse, which is why I asked for clarification and threw in a joke for levity.

Ok, you didn't find my joke funny, but what does 1 Tim 2:15 have to do with "We are to handle the word of God accurately?"

I didn't quote that verse. Someone else did. But no I didn't find it funny, we are to "speak the word with all seriousness."

 

[allykelly07]

I never said a spiritual person that has shown God he or she loves God by living his Word; could not sin, but would not sin.

John was speaking to the spiritual people when he said: (1 John 3:9) &#8220;No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God&#8217;s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.&#8221;

To John sinning was something a person who knew God would never willing do, because first they loved God, and next these people knew, or knew of the following people.

(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira


God does not take away one&#8217;s free will, when he makes a home in him or her.

(John 14:23) &#8220;Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.&#8221;

Sir, if we can sin, and can fall away, then I don't understand your logic at all. All the scripture must work together, we do not continue to sin willfully, but we do sin, (but not us, but sin living in us that does it) no one can be perfect by the flesh, but in the Spirit, we are being perfected, in the new man, growing into maturity. The flesh will, and can, never be any good, so sin will always be there. But we are being cleansed, as we walk in the light, but if we stop walking in the light, we will not be being cleansed of those sins.

 

[motherprayer]

I think the answer to why saved Christians sin is in one word: Passion.

 

[seeingeyes]

I didn't quote that verse. Someone else did. But no I didn't find it funny, we are to "speak the word with all seriousness."

Ah yes, you did not post that verse. I got confused because you answered my post requesting clarification from the one who did.

I guess it was just a transposed number or something. No big deal.

But at least you got to jump in and call me ridiculous and tell me how vile my speech is, without ever, in fact, responding to my view except to say that it must be wrong since there weren't the requisite number of Bible references sprinkled throughout. So that's a plus...

 

[Carmella Prochaska]

I think that is really up to God to decide. I cannot say if he will go to heaven or hell because I don't know his heart.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Another perfectly good thread ruined by Perfectionism.

Whose perfectionism?

By the way, if it wasn't seen before I'll say it again.

Once saved always saved is really really bad theology.

I'd quote dozen or more passages with warnings about the judgement to come and the need to walk worthily and so forth, but people already know those passages and have spun them into their theological story one way or another.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

I think the answer to why saved Christians sin is in one word: Passion.

If I may ask, why do you think this? What does the word of God say sin is?

 

[motherprayer]

If I may ask, why do you think this? What does the word of God say sin is?

Sin is falling short. The Bible says it is transgression of the law. But I said passion for a different reason. Even the holiest of Christians becomes angry, sad, or overwhelmed at times. When those emotions come on, it is hard not to take on sinful behaviors. This is why I doubt highly that one sin can take us out of grace forever.

 

[allykelly07]

It's not about sinning once. It's about if we continue to sin willfully.

 

[motherprayer]

It's not about sinning once. It's about if we continue to sin willfully.

Exactly! This is why I brought passion into it. People mess up, but when a saved person messes up as a result of strong emotion, then asks forgiveness from God right away, I cannot see Him not having sufficient grace to forgive the misstep.

 

[sunlover1]

I believe what you are doing and posting is deceitful.

??

It is only because Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit, and then through the guidance and grace given to one is he or she ever to become righteous.

You' don't believe in imputed righteousness?

But it is a sure indication that the Holy Spirit is not guiding one if he or she sins.

Or that the one who sins isn't HEEDing.
God can guide and we can ignore or even miss hearing Him.

(Galatians 5:16)“Let me put it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger of yielding to self-indulgence....”.

(Ephesians 2-2) “ As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”

(Romans 6: 1-2) “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

[/QUOTE]
Isn't this only half of the equation though?
What about IF we DO sin?
What does God say happens IF we sin.
We die?
Jesus died for us and now we die too?

 

[Giver]

??


You' don't believe in imputed righteousness?



Or that the one who sins isn't HEEDing.
God can guide and we can ignore or even miss hearing Him.

Isn't this only half of the equation though?
What about IF we DO sin?
What does God say happens IF we sin.
We die?
Jesus died for us and now we die too?[/quote]
My understanding is that a person who knows God/has been given knowledge of the truth/in whom God has made a home/a spiritual person that deliberately commits a sin will never enter the kingdom of God.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

I also believe what happened to the following two people told the Early Christian what happens to a Spiritual Christian the deliberately sins.

Now after saying all that my belief is that most Christians today fall into the following category.

(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?”

From my expierance very few people today live the whole Word of God. No one who is not living the whole Word of God will ever become a home of God.


A person who is not living the Whole Word of God will never will be given the knowledge of the truth.

I believe many people who have the gifts of the Holy Spirit refuse to obey what he or she is being told by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus talked about such people in the following verse. These people had the gifts of the Holy Spirit yet refused to live the whole Word of God. People want to say those Jesus was addressing never were “saved” filled with the Holy Sprit. Those people should ask themselves if anyone but God could cast of the devil/demons?

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”