Once saved always saved...Biblical?

[Turpius]

I support the once saved, always saved view.

 

[SoulFly51]

Once again, God doesn't abandon His children.


That doesn't mean His children can't abandon Him though.

 

[Iron Lion]

lets say hitler was a christian before all the stuff he did. Would he have/deserve a place in heaven? (example)

What would be the point of Gods judgement in the case of always saved, Hmmmm Welcome to heaven, you stole and murdered, slept with hookers and did drugs for the last 20 years of you life but when you were 20 you accepted jesus just before you turned bad so come on in to heaven....

makes no sence

Accepting Jesus may give u the keys to eternal life and you can never lose them, but will they fit the lock apon death? only Gods judgement will answer that.

 

[Lumen Gentium]

Yes you can lose grace.....this is one doctrine I have do idea how it came to be or how any serious student of the Bible could believe it.

From start to finish in the Bible, old Covenant, and New, there are people who are saved, then lose it.

Just think of the Israelites in the desert. St. Paul warns us that what happened to them is a warning for us, not just a nice story to watch with the kids on tv each Easter time.

God saved the people from Pharoah through the Red Sea (St. Paul says this prefigures Baptism). They are saved from pharoah symbolizing Satan from that time and were no longer slaves.

They wander through the desert (symbolizing the desert of this life) but those who turn away from God are destroyed and die in the wilderness.

Only those who remain faithful enter the promised land (heaven).

Scripture explicitly states that this is the model for the Christian life in 1 Cor 10:1-13.

So if they could lose it, so can we.....this is mirrored in about a billion other versus, so once saved always saved is bunk...a tradition of men who want it easy and an excuse to sin.

 

[Worthen]

Hmmm ...

I tend to think that you are in as long as you want in ...

this means no matter how weak and prone to failure you are ...

no matter how often you fail to listen or obey ...

if you still have a on-going desire to follow God and be one of the flock ... then you are in.

But if you turn to the dark side and decide you want no more God's grace ... I think He let's you go ... nothing can separate you from God ... but you can decide to leave Him.

*****

Perhaps I'm entirely mixed up ... I don't pretend to know it all. I'm 47 and the older I get the more I find how little I do know. Hey - I've been wrong about tons of stuff. But consider this:

Judges 10:13 But you have forsaken me and served other gods, so I will no longer save you. -KJV

That seems to imply that they were indeed following ... or else how could they forsake Him?

Psalm 9:10 " ... for you, Lord, have never forsaken those who seek you."

Seems to me the key word here is ... those who seek you.

Matthew 26:56 " ... all the disciples forsook Him and fled."

This seems to me that they didn't need to reup or get saved again. They were still God's disciples ... still saved ... and they did return and carry on in the faith. However had they never returned to seeking God ... had they gave up all hope of the gospel and the idea that God was interested in their well-being ... I think the whole bunch would have been lost.

Can God's grace cover such sin as the disciples and if they had left this life before repenting would they have been saved ... I want to think so ... I do think so ... cuz God looks on the heart and he knew they would come back around.

I might be so weak and so full of wrong-doing that you'd think for sure I couldn't get to heaven. But if I still have a broken, sorrowful heart for my wrongs and really try to follow God ... I may make a mess of it almost daily ... but if I keep trying ... I think I'm in.

I hang onto Genesis 18:25 " ... shall not the judge of all the earth do what is right?"

I believe he will ... and if it's not to my liking ... I still take comfort in knowing right will prevail.