Once a Catholic, Always a Catholic?

[chevyontheriver]

There is no medical, physical or any other method to tell a Catholic from a protestant....

Why would you even think I might believe there is a medical or physical test for being Catholic? Sorry, but that seems a bit strange. Likewise because Catholics can be faithful and practicing Catholics or scoundrels who never darken the door of a church, you can't just apply a behavioral test to them. The common denominator is that they have been baptized, and thus belong in the Catholic Church, whether they act like it and are on the way to salvation or they don't act like it and are on the other path or they are somewhere in the middle.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Just out of curiosity... can you show me any scripture that segrigates people within the body of Christ? You know, like Catholics over here.... Pentecostals over there... Baptists on the other side... etc?

As to Scripture used to segregate Christians, I think the Protestant favorite verse is "Come out from her", which I still hear from time to time. And to be fair, I think Protestants use that verse even against other Protestants and not exclusively against Catholics.

 

[JacksBratt]

Why would you even think I might believe there is a medical or physical test for being Catholic? Sorry, but that seems a bit strange. Likewise because Catholics can be faithful and practicing Catholics or scoundrels who never darken the door of a church, you can't just apply a behavioral test to them. The common denominator is that they have been baptized, and thus belong in the Catholic Church, whether they act like it and are on the way to salvation or they don't act like it and are on the other path or they are somewhere in the middle.

I posted this because people seem to think that there is some "indelible" thing that happens to a human to make them a "Catholic". Like they are some how marked or something and can never be made "un-Catholic".

 

[JacksBratt]

As to Scripture used to segregate Christians, I think the Protestant favorite verse is "Come out from her", which I still hear from time to time. And to be fair, I think Protestants use that verse even against other Protestants and not exclusively against Catholics.

Hmm, I'm Protestant... well... my family took me to a Protestant based church and I was raised with traditional Protestant worship practices... I am a "child of God"....

And, I've never heard the verse "come out of her" before..

Can you give me chapter and verse and tell me what they are using this to indicate?

 

[Jonaitis]

I posted this because people seem to think that there is some "indelible" thing that happens to a human to make them a "Catholic". Like they are some how marked or something and can never be made "un-Catholic".

It resembles modern Judaism if you ask me: a born Jew is a Jew no matter what he follows (and I don't mean just ethnically, this could apply even if that person's parents were converted).

 

[JacksBratt]

It resembles modern Judaism if you ask me: a Jew is a Jew no matter what he believes.

HaHa..... a Jew can be classified as a tribe or even a race, to some extent. They can be genetically indicated as such...and traced back..

Catholics can be any race, color, creed, language and lineage.

Muslims are not a race either... It confuses me as to why people are called "racist" if they slander Muslims. They may be prejudiced.. but not racist.

 

[Jonaitis]

HaHa..... a Jew can be classified as a tribe or even a race, to some extent. They can be genetically indicated as such...and traced back..

Catholics can be any race, color, creed, language and lineage.

Muslims are not a race either... It confuses me as to why people are called "racist" if they slander Muslims. They may be prejudiced.. but not racist.

I edited my post.

I agree with the Muslim part. I never understood it.

 

[Albion]

Hmm, I'm Protestant... well... my family took me to a Protestant based church and I was raised with traditional Protestant worship practices... I am a "child of God"....

And, I've never heard the verse "come out of her" before..

Can you give me chapter and verse and tell me what they are using this to indicate?

Nope. You admitted to being a "Protestant" (Episcopalian or Oneness Pentecostal, it doesn't matter, they're all the same), so that must be your favorite verse. Period.

 

[JacksBratt]

Nope. You admitted to being a "Protestant" (Episcopalian or Oneness Pentecostal, it doesn't matter, they're all the same), so that must be your favorite verse. Period.

You do see where I said "well, my family took me to a Protestant church.. etc." Right?

 

[thecolorsblend]

I edited my post.

I agree with the Muslim part. I never understood it.

You don’t understand it because you’re viewing the matter from the perspective of a Christian in the western world.

The Moslems understand it perfectly.

 

[Jonaitis]

Muslims are not a race either... It confuses me as to why people are called "racist" if they slander Muslims. They may be prejudiced.. but not racist.

Now thinking about it, isn't calling Islam a race a bit racist? I don't think people realize their own bias.

 

[Albion]

Muslims are not a race either... It confuses me as to why people are called "racist" if they slander Muslims. They may be prejudiced.. but not racist.

It may be because the word has now become the universal insult word, having passed from having a particular meaning--and certainly not the original meaning--and become instead just something that is said to really, really smear anyone for almost any reason.​

 

[ChicanaRose]

I posted this because people seem to think that there is some "indelible" thing that happens to a human to make them a "Catholic". Like they are some how marked or something and can never be made "un-Catholic".

I agree. I feel like it can never be "undone" even if you were an infant and had no choice; or even if you feel you've made a mistake in joining the RCC as an adult.

 

[mama2one]

feel like it can never be "undone" even if you were an infant and had no choice

see things different (for me) since asked forgiveness and asked God in my life as a college student

for me that is when I became Christian despite being raised as a RC as this was my individual choice as a college student

there is no going back for me despite being raised RC because of what posted earlier plus don't have the same beliefs re communion as RC's so if we do attend RC church (all my family is RC) then don't take communion as don't consider myself RC and it would be wrong

 

[Concord1968]

I posted this because people seem to think that there is some "indelible" thing that happens to a human to make them a "Catholic". Like they are some how marked or something and can never be made "un-Catholic".

I've seen books by Catholics about Catholicism that say that very thing in regard to ordination to the priesthood: That ordination leaves an indelible mark on the soul that can never be undone. Once a priest always a priest. Even defrocking can't change it, according to them anyway.

 

[JacksBratt]

It may be because the word has now become the universal insult word, having passed from having a particular meaning--and certainly not the original meaning--and become instead just something that is said to really, really smear anyone for almost any reason.​

That can be dangerous, don't you think? Labeling someone as "racist" which is very condescending and a huge slam to their character... when they are not "racist". They are prejudiced to the actions of a certain religious group.

Now, for me, I work with Muslims... nice people. We get along just fine and I have absolutely no concern about what God or god you want to worship or how you worship...

I could care less what religion you are or how your particular sect of a certain religion believe.

BUT... start killing people or insulting people or hurting them in any way... for any reason or under the name of your god or religion... is wrong .........no matter what your excuse..

So, in the end, people are wary of people of the Muslim religion simply due to the track record of people doing things based on their view of that religion.
It is not racism... it is a learned fear. A learned and cultivated instinctive protective reaction.

A small number of deranged people use a certain religion as a springboard and justification of terrible acts.... It's wrong... But the fact that people are cautious is a natural and protective reaction.

We should not be insulted because of this.


If someone was to go out and kill a bunch of random people... and claim that Jesus told them to... the whole of the Christian religious followers would be strong, loud and vocal that this is totally against Christ's way..

I would like to see more of that from the leaders of Muslims... I think, that they too are afraid of being in danger of doing so, however.

Sorry for being off topic.

 

[ChicanaRose]

I've seen books by Catholics about Catholicism that say that very thing in regard to ordination to the priesthood: That ordination leaves an indelible mark on the soul that can never be undone. Once a priest always a priest. Even defrocking can't change it, according to them anyway.

Yes, teachings like that can make someone feel "stuck" and guilt-stricken to receive communion elsewhere, even with the intention of never going back to RCC.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I've seen books by Catholics about Catholicism that say that very thing in regard to ordination to the priesthood: That ordination leaves an indelible mark on the soul that can never be undone. Once a priest always a priest. Even defrocking can't change it, according to them anyway.

The process you are describing is called laicization, which is when a priest is prohibited from functioning as a priest. He remains a priest because of the sacramental character of Holy Orders. That will never change because being ordained leaves an indelible mark on the soul. It can't ever be undone.

However, the faculties, office, responsibilities, vestments and so forth of ordination are denied to those who have been laicized.

You rightly connect this with those who have been baptized as the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character, leaving a mark upon the soul of whoever receives them.

So yes, a Catholic layman can leave the Church but, in the Church's eyes, he or she will always be Catholic, in a general sense. And a priest can also be laicized but he will always be a priest, again in a general sense.

 

[Paidiske]

And, I've never heard the verse "come out of her" before..

Can you give me chapter and verse and tell me what they are using this to indicate?

I've come across it, admittedly in internet polemic rather than any church's teaching and worship.

The reference is to Revelation 18:4, read in such a way that Catholicism is what is symbolised by Babylon the great.

 

[ChicanaRose]

The process you are describing is called laicization, which is when a priest is prohibited from functioning as a priest. He remains a priest because of the sacramental character of Holy Orders. That will never change because being ordained leaves an indelible mark on the soul. It can't ever be undone.

However, the faculties, office, responsibilities, vestments and so forth of ordination are denied to those who have been laicized.

You rightly connect this with those who have been baptized as the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character, leaving a mark upon the soul of whoever receives them.

So yes, a Catholic layman can leave the Church but, in the Church's eyes, he or she will always be Catholic, in a general sense. And a priest can also be laicized but he will always be a priest, again in a general sense.

That's right. Now I remember what it's called ("laicization").