Once a Catholic, Always a Catholic?

Shimokita

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It goes further than that: They believe anyone receiving a Triune baptism to be automatically Catholic regardless of which faith they were actually baptized in. It's how Vatican II tried to get around the inconvenient "No salvation outside the Catholic Church" dogma.
Well this is interesting. What is your view of the church? I don't think the idea of having one church and all sacraments flowing from that church should be offensive to anyone who holds a sacramental theology (leaving aside the question as to which church can lay claim to being that one church).
 
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thecolorsblend

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Revelation 18:4.

The word for the end time religious system in place AFTER the Rapture is Babylon. It is treacherous in beauty and charm of but is a theological and political prostitute.

The system, represented by the whole image, is attractive. As in Paul's analogy of the body in I Corinthians 12, the head guides and directs the other parts of the body. In effect, this means that Babylon, the head of gold, has impressed its system, its ideas, its style, its qualities on all of civilization. Though the system is not acceptable to God, it nevertheless has stamped its mark on the whole world.

Everyone has participated in it. American culture is an Israelite adaptation of the head of gold. All other nations have absorbed its qualities, putting their own particular twists on them. The same basic system pervades the world—and as it is practiced, it is anti-Christ.

The only thing keeping it from completely over coming the world of today is the Holy Spirit in the hearts of believers. Once the Rapture happens, HE, the Holy Spirit will be removed and then the ANT_CHRIST will be revealed and all hell will break out.

Because of its attractiveness, its magnetism, and because all are defenseless before conversion, it has impressed itself upon God's people. Babylon is the world Christians must separate themselves from.
Looks like you forgot to link to your source again. :(

Prostitute, Metaphor of (Forerunner Commentary)

Harlot, Metaphor of (Forerunner Commentary)

That's still not "racism". It's religious persecution.... big difference.
They don't see it that way.
 
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ChicanaRose

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Julian of Norwich

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I don't agree with everything the RCC teaches, but I don't think it's Babylon. I wanted to know if I am technically a Catholic; not if I am technically a Babylonian. I don't think Babylonians would participate in Christian Forums.
 
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Major1

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I've heard that if you were baptized in a Catholic church, you will always technically be considered a Catholic even if you go to another denomination. Is this true?

What about adult converts who were baptized in a Protestant church but was later received into the Catholic church? Since they were not baptized in the Catholic church, will they be no longer considered a Catholic if they revert to their Protestant faith?

Water Baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation whether it be the Catholic church or a Protestant church.

I know of many adults who were Catholic who when they go saved saved, then left the Catholic church to unite with a Protestant church.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Water Baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation whether it be the Catholic church or a Protestant church.

I know of many adults who were Catholic who when they go saved saved, then left the Catholic church to unite with a Protestant church.
Generally, the Catholic Church still regards such a person as Catholic.
 
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Mark_Sam

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A lot of people have a hard time understanding that even a bad, apostate, unbelieving Catholic is still Catholic. An unsaved Catholic is still Catholic.

Just as much as you can't "un-circumcise" yourself, you cannot "un-baptise" yourself.
 
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bbbbbbb

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A lot of people have a hard time understanding that even a bad, apostate, unbelieving Catholic is still Catholic. An unsaved Catholic is still Catholic.

Just as much as you can't "un-circumcise" yourself, you cannot "un-baptise" yourself.

Yes, that is why Martin Luther is in heaven now.
 
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Major1

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A lot of people have a hard time understanding that even a bad, apostate, unbelieving Catholic is still Catholic. An unsaved Catholic is still Catholic.

Just as much as you can't "un-circumcise" yourself, you cannot "un-baptise" yourself.

And that comment would actually mean something...….IF baptism had anything at all to do with salvation.
 
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Major1

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I don't agree with everything the RCC teaches, but I don't think it's Babylon. I wanted to know if I am technically a Catholic; not if I am technically a Babylonian. I don't think Babylonians would participate in Christian Forums.

You actually might want to do some real study on what you just said.

Are you aware for instance that a great number of Christian people today keep
Babylonian festivals?????

They are called the Solstice at Christmas and of Easter, which is the festival of Ishtar (the ancient
fertility goddess of Babylon).

(Nimrod and False Religion;Adapted from Chapters 5 of The Bible Story Volume 1 by Basil Wolverton).
 
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thecolorsblend

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You actually might want to do some real study on what you just said.

Are you aware for instance that a great number of Christian people today keep
Babylonian festivals?????

They are called the Solstice at Christmas and of Easter, which is the festival of Ishtar (the ancient
fertility goddess of Babylon).

(Nimrod and False Religion;Adapted from Chapters 5 of The Bible Story Volume 1 by Basil Wolverton).
Not true.

https://www.ucatholic.com/blog/easter-is-not-names-after-ishtar

Why December 25?
 
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Major1

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Thank you. Phew, I can still celebrate Easter and Christmas!

Of course we can !!! My point was that it was the Babylonian religion going all the way back to Genesis 10 that chose the times for the solstice.

Please do not take my word alone on this. YOU do the work for yourself. Seach the internet for NIMROD or Semeramis and you will see what I am saying.

It was then the Roman Catholic Church which chose to incorporate those dates as the dates for Christmas and Easter after Babylon (Persia) had been conquered so as to appease them.
 
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Major1

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A lot of people have a hard time understanding that even a bad, apostate, unbelieving Catholic is still Catholic. An unsaved Catholic is still Catholic.

Just as much as you can't "un-circumcise" yourself, you cannot "un-baptise" yourself.

You said...………….
"unbelieving Catholic is still Catholic. An unsaved Catholic is still Catholic."

And Catholics all over the world wonder why Martin Luther instigated the Protestant church.

It was because of those kinds of comments. I am sure that you are a wonderful person and a great Catholic believer, but that comment is simply breath taking as it means nothing whatsoever.

I don't even know what you said to tell you the truth.

An "Unbelieving Catholic" is a LOST SINNER.
An "Unbelieving Protestant" is a LOST SINNER!

How can an unbeliever be a Catholic??????
 
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Mark_Sam

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I don't even know what you said to tell you the truth.

An "Unbelieving Catholic" is a LOST SINNER.
An "Unbelieving Protestant" is a LOST SINNER!

How can an unbeliever be a Catholic??????
As Catholics, we believe that the Sacrament of Baptism leaves an indelible spiritual mark on a person. And this spiritual mark is tied to membership. Once baptised into the Church Catholic, you cannot change that fact that this event has occurred, and membership is simply a recognition of this fact.

If a defected Catholic wants to return to the Catholic Church, he will be treated as if he had been a member all along, i.e. no need to write to the bishop to be admitted into the Faith, no need for Baptism and Confirmation etc.

Of course, for tax purposes and other legal purposes, you can opt out of the Church. For example, here in Norway, you can only be a member of one religious group at a time, and all religious groups receive money from church taxes, proportional to their member count. So if a Catholic here registered as a member of, say, the Baptist Union of Norway, the Kingdom of Norway would for all legal purposes regard this person as a Baptist, and his name would be struck from the Norwegian Catholic membership register (the Catholic Church in Norway would still keep a copy of his certificate of Baptism and Confirmation, however), and his taxes would now go to the Baptist Union. I'm sure many other countries with a church tax system does things similarly. (Ok, Norway doesn't have a true church tax, only a sort of quasi-taxation, but that's irrelevant to my point here.)

The Catholic Church is, however, not only a physical political entity, but also a spiritual entity, as the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church. Physically, you can opt out, but spiritually, you cannot, since you cannot remove the irremovable mark of Baptism. (Legend has it that the Roman emperor Julian the Apostate tried to wash away the mark of Baptism by bathing in pig's blood.) You might not believe that Baptism does these things, but the Catholic Church certainly does.

So if a Catholic commits heresy or is in the state of mortal sin, he is said to be severed from the Soul of the Church (i.e. lost), whilst still being in the Body of the Church (i.e. being Catholic), and is then under the obligation to repent and confess as soon as possible. I'm not familiar with the minutiae here, but I think that is the gist of it.

So how can an unbeliever still be Catholic? For one, he can be extremely bad at being Catholic. He might stopping self-identifying as a Catholic, and others might too, but the Church won't let go, and the offer of grace to come, repent and confess still stands as long as that person lives. He might be a lost sinner, but Mother Church never gives up on her children. Even anathemas and excommunications are ultimately tools for conversion, as they aim at making the person repent, for the sake of their soul.

So many will nominally bear the name of Catholic (and the name of Christian in general), but will still be lost. So this is not the same as Universalism.
 
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mama2one

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The Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation


from above:

To be an actual member of the Catholic Church, the baptized person must also be ready to profess what the Catholic Church teaches, and accept her laws and obligations with an open heart

also, from above:


The baptismal character is permanent because it is timeless; it is indelible because nothing, not even the loss of faith can remove it. Therefore a baptized person always remains a Christian. Why? Because the baptismal seal confers a permanent relationship with Christ.



so, the Baptised are CHRISTIAN


doesn't say the Baptised are Catholic as first paragraph shows there are CONDITIONS to be Catholic
 
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Mark_Sam

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Yes, this is where it gets awkward. I think pope Benedict XVI (then Fr. Joseph Ratzinger) said it best when he said that "there is no appropriate category in Catholic thought for the phenomenon of Protestantism today" (The Meaning of Christian Brotherhood, 1960). In the old days, all baptised Christians were Catholic. The post-Reformation Protestants essentially represents a new kind of Christian according to Catholic thought: the non-Catholic Christian, "separated brethren". They are not formally heretics, as they didn't themselves choose to leave the Catholic Church (they were born and raised in Protestant Christianity). Neither are they Catholic, as they are not in communion with the bishop of Rome. And they don't have apostolic succession and valid Holy Orders, as the Eastern Orthodox have.

So the true relationship between Catholic Christians, non-Catholic Christians, the Church of Christ and the Catholic Church (as the former subsists in the latter), is far above my theological level.

But this shouldn't in any way be regarded as a tier system, where you first become Christian then Catholic. For within the walls of the Catholic Church, being Christian *is* being Catholic. Outside the walls of the Catholic Church, not so much. But then again, this is way above my theological level.
 
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thecolorsblend

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You said...………….
"unbelieving Catholic is still Catholic. An unsaved Catholic is still Catholic."

And Catholics all over the world wonder why Martin Luther instigated the Protestant church.

It was because of those kinds of comments. I am sure that you are a wonderful person and a great Catholic believer, but that comment is simply breath taking as it means nothing whatsoever.

I don't even know what you said to tell you the truth.

An "Unbelieving Catholic" is a LOST SINNER.
An "Unbelieving Protestant" is a LOST SINNER!

How can an unbeliever be a Catholic??????
Because that person is canonically still Catholic. They may be Catholics who are excommunicated latae sententiae but that doesn't change their canonical status in the eyes of the Church.

And frankly, this isn't a radical idea. Or one which is unique to the Catholic world.

Take me, for example. I'm still a member of a Southern Baptist ecclesial community here in my town. Now, I have tried cancelling my membership. Because I wouldn't even set foot in that place if you paid me. So I thought it was only fair to cancel my membership. The pastor to whom I spoke refused to do so unless I told him where I was attending in lieu of his ecclesial community.

That's none of his business and I said so. I mean, let's face it, I don't believe in his authority. But unless I provided that information, he would not honor my request to cancel the membership.

So in that Southern Baptist ecclesial community's collective eyes, I'm still a Baptist. Perhaps not one in good standing but still a Southern Baptist as far as they're concerned.
 
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