Once a Catholic, Always a Catholic?

JacksBratt

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No. Well, at least that's not entirely it. It has do with the fact that Catholics -- unlike Orthodox (or at least unlike Oriental Orthodox, though I've been told in the past that you guys also disagree with the RC on this) -- believe that the sacrament of baptism (and that of priestly ordination, if I recall correctly) confers an ontological change upon the person, marking them permanently with an "indelible mark" as Catholics.

So it's impossible to leave not because you can't leave the Catholic Church and join another one, but because being Roman Catholic makes you into something ontologically different, and you cannot change what you ontologically are...even though, oddly enough, you do being baptized RC in the first place.

(See, e.g., this bit of apologetics)
Just out of curiosity... can you show me any scripture that segrigates people within the body of Christ? You know, like Catholics over here.... Pentecostals over there... Baptists on the other side... etc?

Or, are we all Children of God who believe in Christ as our savior..... all with different ways of looking at things and different methods of worship, prayer and celebration of the fact that Christ is risen?

So, if we like to where clothes... as all descent people do.... and I like genes and T shirts... and you like cargo shorts and a golf shirt....someone else likes dress pants, shirt and tie... yet another likes sweat pants and a tank top..

Then... one day... I get up and decide to wear a three piece suit.... It's just a different attitude and way of wearing clothes...

We need to stop with this "branding" of a certain denomination... ownership and such.

There are many things about different denominations that I disagree with. Some, I downright think are stumbling blocks to the unsaved as well as the congregation.

Time to stop with the borders... Do you believe in Christ? Do you trust in Him to save your soul? Do you believe you are a sinner and need a savior?

If yes.. then you are not to waddle away to one of the selected pens in which you will be given a name tag for life.
 
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thecolorsblend

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It goes further than that: They believe anyone receiving a Triune baptism to be automatically Catholic regardless of which faith they were actually baptized in. It's how Vatican II tried to get around the inconvenient "No salvation outside the Catholic Church" dogma.
Is it your contention that my Church did not recognize baptisms performed outside their auspices prior to Vatican II?

Consider it carefully before you respond.
 
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johnnywong

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I've heard that if you were baptized in a Catholic church, you will always technically be considered a Catholic even if you go to another denomination. Is this true?

What about adult converts who were baptized in a Protestant church but was later received into the Catholic church? Since they were not baptized in the Catholic church, will they be no longer considered a Catholic if they revert to their Protestant faith?
The most important point is are you born-again follower of Christ.
Otherthings is not important.
 
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dzheremi

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Just out of curiosity... can you show me any scripture that segrigates people within the body of Christ? You know, like Catholics over here.... Pentecostals over there... Baptists on the other side... etc?

Or, are we all Children of God who believe in Christ as our savior..... all with different ways of looking at things and different methods of worship, prayer and celebration of the fact that Christ is risen?

So, if we like to where clothes... as all descent people do.... and I like genes and T shirts... and you like cargo shorts and a golf shirt....someone else likes dress pants, shirt and tie... yet another likes sweat pants and a tank top..

Then... one day... I get up and decide to wear a three piece suit.... It's just a different attitude and way of wearing clothes...

We need to stop with this "branding" of a certain denomination... ownership and such.

There are many things about different denominations that I disagree with. Some, I downright think are stumbling blocks to the unsaved as well as the congregation.

Time to stop with the borders... Do you believe in Christ? Do you trust in Him to save your soul? Do you believe you are a sinner and need a savior?

If yes.. then you are not to waddle away to one of the selected pens in which you will be given a name tag for life.

Might I ask in a friendly way why you are asking me in particular about this? So far I've done my best to describe the RC ecclesiology as I know it from their own apologetics (based in their official printed Catechism and their understanding of relevant Biblical passages and Church history, as presented at the link a few posts ago), but that is not my ecclesiology as an Oriental Orthodox Christian.

As to your specific questions, I don't really know how to answer them. They don't come from a place that my Church can really relate to, so I don't know what I should say. Denominationalism is a phenomenon that did not affect my Church whatsoever, as it is a post-Protestant Reformation reality involving those churches which descended from the Roman Catholic/Latin/Western Church. My own Church has a completely different history, having been out of communion with the Greco-Roman churches of the Western and Eastern Roman empires (the modern Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics) since the aftermath of the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD -- over a millennia before Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the church at Wittenberg Castle in 1517.

So...okay. Thank you for your thoughts. I agree that we should all love Christ and that this love should transcend all divisions among everyone claiming Christianity, or they ought not claim Christianity in the first place (and this applies to everyone in my Church just as much everywhere else, of course). But as to what to think of Baptists, Pentecostals, or whatever...I don't know. That's up to God. The Eastern Orthodox have a saying that I think would help here: "We know where the Church is, not where it is not." We Oriental Orthodox would say something similar, though I've never actually heard anyone of my communion say that in exactly those words.

And analogies to dressing preferences, etc. are not appropriate, in my eyes. It is not a matter of personal preference or style that I confess what I do, or that others confess what they do. I did not get lost on my way to RC mass one day and decide I would go to the Egyptian Orthodox Church instead because I like their use of the mitre and incense better than the RC use of the same (though I do ;)). It really is a matter of faith that we should freely disagree with that which others have erred in (NB: the ideas; not the people). Were this not the case also among those descending from the Protestant traditions who now embrace such pietism as you have shown here (which is itself a product of 17th century Lutheranism), there wouldn't be any Protestants in the first place.
 
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SaintCody777

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I've heard that if you were baptized in a Catholic church, you will always technically be considered a Catholic even if you go to another denomination. Is this true?

What about adult converts who were baptized in a Protestant church but was later received into the Catholic church? Since they were not baptized in the Catholic church, will they be no longer considered a Catholic if they revert to their Protestant faith?

No, technically. According to the Cathechism, a former Catholic, like me, is still a Catholic but under schism. Since I struggle with masturbation (which is sinful in Biblical Christianity), I know for sure that I am under the state of mortal sin according to the Catholic Catechism. According to the first commandment in the Cathecism, schism is a serious, mortal sin.
 
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Foxfyre

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Thank you everyone for your responses. So can a lapsed Catholic receive communion at another congregation, if it is an open-communion church? (I understand that if it is the closed communion church, you'd have to first convert to that church's denomination).

The defection option is no longer available today as I understand.

Yes many non-denominational congregations and many Protestant denominations have open communion and do not restrict who receives it in any way and membership in their group is not a requirement. That would include most Episcopal congregations where you would likely find the most 'catholic like' worship service. Episcopalians celebrate the Eucharist weekly and sometimes more often. Among Protestant Denominations, The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), the United Church of Christ, and some others offer communion in every worship service. Many groups offer it monthly or quarterly. But only a few would not invite you, a non member of that particular group, to take communion with them.
 
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ChicanaRose

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For those of you who converted from Catholicism to another denomination, where do you receive communion?

Do you attend your regular church but decline communion there and instead attend Catholic Mass for the purpose of receiving communion?
 
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Foxfyre

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Because you are cut off from the sacraments, that is. If you are excommunicated, by the way, it is expected that you will shape up and get the decree removed. It is not a spiritual death sentence.

It isn't a spiritual death sentence if the decree is not removed?
 
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ChicanaRose

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It isn't a spiritual death sentence if the decree is not removed?

Albion presents a correct understanding of the original purpose of excommunication, as a disciplinary measure. It takes something major for the church to even excommunicate someone, as it really does not want to lose its members.

But is "once a Catholic, always a Catholic" really fair, if you were baptized as an infant and had no choice over the matter? Or what if you went through RCIA and feel like you've made a mistake?
 
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Paidiske

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For those of you who converted from Catholicism to another denomination, where do you receive communion?

Do you attend your regular church but decline communion there and instead attend Catholic Mass for the purpose of receiving communion?

I personally was never Catholic (my parents lapsed before I was born, therefore I was baptised as an adult when I had chosen a different denomination).

But I have seen the full spectrum of responses to your question from others; some attend a non-Catholic church but don't receive communion (these probably still think of themselves as Catholic, unless they have some particular objection to something in the new church; eg. there are some folks who won't take communion if the presiding priest is a woman). There are some who receive communion regularly, but never officially take up membership of the new church. And there are some who will go all the way through whatever the membership processes of the new church are.

A big part of how people find their answers to this is a) what they believe about communion, and b) where they really feel their personal religious identity lies. These are not simple questions, and the answers don't tend to be one-size-fits-all, either.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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In seriousness, i like the Idea of a community refusing to let you go. You might be a lapsed prodigal but you will always belong to flock if you choose to return. It creates a strong sense of what the Church actually is.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I've heard that if you were baptized in a Catholic church, you will always technically be considered a Catholic even if you go to another denomination. Is this true?

What about adult converts who were baptized in a Protestant church but was later received into the Catholic church? Since they were not baptized in the Catholic church, will they be no longer considered a Catholic if they revert to their Protestant faith?
Yes the Catholic church works this way. Though I am now a protestant, at any time I can go back and be a full fledged Catholic. The door is always open. I choose to ignore that door.
Blessings
 
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concretecamper

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Baptism is a Sacrament that incorporates one into the Body of Christ. But.....

From the Catechism of Trent

Those Who Are Not Members Of The Church

Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the Church’s pale: infidels, heretics and schismatics, and excommunicated persons. Infidels are outside the Church because they never belonged to, and never knew the Church, and were never made partakers of any of her Sacraments. Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church, because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they have deserted. It is not, however, to be denied that they are still subject to the jurisdiction of the Church, inasmuch as they may be called before her tribunals, punished and anathematised. Finally, excommunicated persons are not members of the Church, because they have been cut off by her sentence from the number of her children and belong not to her communion until they repent
 
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dzheremi

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In seriousness, i like the Idea of a community refusing to let you go. You might be a lapsed prodigal but you will always belong to flock if you choose to return. It creates a strong sense of what the Church actually is.

That's a nice way to look at it, I suppose. I wouldn't and don't fault the RCC for having the view it has, I just don't share it because I don't see it as it sees itself.

So to someone who has been there it can seem kinda more...Borg-ish than loving family sometimes (depending on how it's expressed, of course; most Catholics I know in real life are nice people, though it's also not like I shove my former-RCism in their face or anything). Some don't seem to know the difference between a carrot and cudgel, though I guess that could be said of anyone who is very, very zealous.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I've heard that if you were baptized in a Catholic church, you will always technically be considered a Catholic even if you go to another denomination. Is this true?

What about adult converts who were baptized in a Protestant church but was later received into the Catholic church? Since they were not baptized in the Catholic church, will they be no longer considered a Catholic if they revert to their Protestant faith?
If a person ever was a Catholic, no matter who baptized them, they still are a Catholic. A good Catholic, a practicing Catholic, a bad Catholic, a wandering Catholic, a saved Catholic, a Catholic on the way to damnation, whatever, but still a Catholic. The exception is for someone who formally renounces the faith in a letter to their bishop. But almost nobody ever does that. For all the rest who have stepped away, they can come back with one good confession.
 
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JacksBratt

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For those of you who converted from Catholicism to another denomination, where do you receive communion?

Do you attend your regular church but decline communion there and instead attend Catholic Mass for the purpose of receiving communion?
Observe communion in the church that you attend. If it is the Lords Table, they observe the emblems as Christ described and do it "in remembrance of Me"... In a church that preaches the gospel...it is communion.
Catholics do not have a monopoly on observing communion. Nor do any protestant churches. God knows no denominational boundaries.
 
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JacksBratt

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If a person ever was a Catholic, no matter who baptized them, they still are a Catholic. A good Catholic, a practicing Catholic, a bad Catholic, a wandering Catholic, a saved Catholic, a Catholic on the way to damnation, whatever, but still a Catholic. The exception is for someone who formally renounces the faith in a letter to their bishop. But almost nobody ever does that. For all the rest who have stepped away, they can come back with one good confession.
What makes you a "Catholic"? Can anyone be tested and medically, physically or any other way, be found to be different than someone who, for whatever reason, is not "Catholic"?

I grew up in a very Irish township. There was the kids that went to the Catholic school and those that went to the Public School.. There was a lot of partitioning in sports and other social events where we all got blended... That went away as times changed and people populated the township from larger cities.

I played hockey from a very young age. Our team was a good mix of Catholic and Protestants. Believe me.. when we had a practice game, among ourselves... you kept your head up because the segregation and differentiation was there.... it was game on.

However, when we played other teams from other towns.... we were united and one.. we watched our for each other and were a solid team.


This is the way I see this division... we are all fighting a common enemy.. Satan.... we should not be arguing over different systems or methods within our own denominations.

The only time I get my back up is when someone tells me that their method is right, you are wrong and some how their "religion" is the only one or you are marked for life by any one type of Christian methods and beliefs.

There is no medical, physical or any other method to tell a Catholic from a protestant....
 
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