"On White Privilege"

[rturner76]

The way to make all equal is to remove such privileges.

I guess in a way it would make everyone equal...... equally able to practice segregation

 

[Ana the Ist]

And now you're repeating the same obnoxious strawman as nightflight. Well done.

Well then kindly explain it. You've already stated white privilege is a problem. What's the source of this problem?

 

[Ana the Ist]

And yet, no one is "blaming whites" here.

No. One.

So if you'd kindly stop assuming that to be the case, I'd appreciate if you'd listen to what is actually being said, so you can join in and discuss the issue that's actually being discussed.

-- A2SG, unless you'd rather continue going out of your way to miss the point over and over again......

That is what's being said...

White privilege is a problem, right?

What's the cause of that problem?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Two points here:

1. There is no "single black man shot by a white cop." There are thousands. Over time. A LONG time. That's kinda the point, that it isn't an anomaly, it's a pattern.

There is a pattern...it's the behavior of the black men who get shot. Whether they were shooting at police, fighting them, trying to take their gun, etc.

When this was studied it was found that black police shoot black suspects at the same rate as white police. That's a rather strong indication that something other than racism is at play.

2. Shouldn't cops be held to a higher standard than everyone else, especially when it comes to protecting the community?

And they are...in fact it's the only job I can think of where people expect other people to be perfect and never make mistakes.

Sure, violence within the black community is a problem, and no one is suggesting we ignore it; but the problem of cops shooting unarmed black men more than they do any other group is a systemic problem, and it needs to be addressed as well.

Well since we know racism isn't the cause (see above)...perhaps we should look at other factors that could be at play here? Like...why do black men resist and shoot at police at a higher rate than their white counterparts?

And what do you mean "we shouldn't ignore it"? I can't count how many white privilege threads I've seen on these forums in the past year....I can't think of one where blacks asked other blacks "what's causing all this violence in our own community and how can we fix it?"

Thing is, these two problems are different, and need to be dealt with in different ways. Conflating them only serves to ignore the issues involved.

-- A2SG, and please note how I'm not blaming "whites" for these problems...it goes deeper than that.....

The only real difference is that one asks everyone else to change...the other requires you to change yourself. One is easy to do but gets you nowhere...the other is difficult but gets results.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You'd be surprised. A lot of racists don't actually recognize their own biases, and if told about them, will try to correct the issue.

I thought we weren't blaming whites?? Are you saying that it's racist black employers who won't hire people with black sounding names? Is it racist black people who are the cause of white privilege?

 

[nightflight]

Maybe we should have a white privilege tax.

 

[SummerMadness]

When this was studied it was found that black police shoot black suspects at the same rate as white police. That's a rather strong indication that something other than racism is at play.

Whether the police officer is black or white is not relevant when discussing systemic racism. The death of Akai Gurley speaks to this issue, the approach that police to take to the African American community results in repeated tragedies like this. This is not about whether an individual cop dislikes black people and whether you can see whether they hate black people more than another group of cops.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Whether the police officer is black or white is not relevant when discussing systemic racism. The death of Akai Gurley speaks to this issue, the approach that police to take to the African American community results in repeated tragedies like this. This is not about whether an individual cop dislikes black people and whether you can see whether they hate black people more than another group of cops.

Tamir Rice is another example.....a kid

 

[SummerMadness]

Tamir Rice is another example.....a kid

They'll just argue that he was going for his waistband. In order to avoid the racial component of these discussions, some go out of their way to smear the victim demanding they be complete angels because you're only a victim if you're infallible. Any single transgression is magnified, just look at Trayvon Martin. Regardless of your misgivings about Martin's character ("because he was acting like a thug!"), these folks do not have a problem with a man following a minor in a car and proceeding to chase him, that says a lot. It says a lot because whether consciously or not, they expect Martin to prove he's done nothing wrong, and it's that kind of attitude that enables systemic racism to continue, especially because this attitude is not applied equally.

 

[nightflight]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/Texas10MostWanted/fugitives.aspx

 

[Kersh]

I am a criminal defense lawyer. I have had several clients who were persons of color and who were charged with drug related charges. In every case I've had like this, the prosecuting attorney has said to me, "you're welcome to take the case to trial, but good luck getting a ------ County jury to acquit a black man." In a couple of cases, I've responded, "what if he's not guilty?". The answer: "well, you know how our juries are."

So, the gist of the story: if you're black and accused of a drug crime, you're guilty until proven innocent. Juries are known in my County to be racist, and the police and prosecutor use this to their advantage to get convictions. Anyone else see a problem here?

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[Kersh]

I've also seen several cases, in multiple counties where police confront a person of color about a crime, because he "matches the description" (i.e., a black male with black hair and brown eyes). The police, then attempt to (illegally) restrain the person, the person does not promptly submit, and is charged with resisting a police officer (despite having no connection to the original crime). I can't recall ever seeing a white person in this scenario.

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[Kersh]

One of the most nefarious aspects of white privilege is that it allows those of us who have it to imagine that it doesn't exist.

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[Ana the Ist]

Whether the police officer is black or white is not relevant when discussing systemic racism.

It's not?? What exactly is your contention here then? That once you wear a badge you suddenly become racist against blacks no matter what race you are? I know that sounds like a dumb question...but I don't know what else you could mean by "systemic" racism. This particular "system" is made up of people...of all different races.

The death of Akai Gurley speaks to this issue, the approach that police to take to the African American community results in repeated tragedies like this. This is not about whether an individual cop dislikes black people and whether you can see whether they hate black people more than another group of cops.

So you're saying that the method they used to patrol this housing project, described as one of the most violent housing projects in New York, had nothing to do with the level of crime and everything to do with the race of its occupants? What's more...is you think these sort of incidents are common?

 

[Kersh]

I was bullied mercilessly in the seventh grade by a group of eighth grade girls that all happened to be black. Racial slurs were thrown my way every day, food was thrown at me in the cafeteria every day, I was pushed into lockers, people got in my face and threatened to beat my head in. It was 100% unprovoked. I had to eat lunch with the eighth graders that year and was told that I allegedly 'stared' at someone one day, which apparently set the whole thing off. One girl did apologize to me at the end of the school year, telling me she knew they were all wrong. However, going to school that year was hell. I was afraid to go. Administrators did nothing (one even watched them do their usual thing toward me and still did nothing).

Do not think white people never experience this type of thing. It does happen. Bullying is a big problem in schools and it happens to a lot of people of many races and ethnicities for a variety of reasons.

I was bullied by black kids when I was in school. I was also bullied by white kids. Race had little to do with it. It was because the kids who bullied me were jerks (and so was I to a considerable extent). But I also remember white kids standing outside of the school, yelling out that they were looking for some [n-word]s to stomp and picking off the first few who came out the door.

Just recently, in our local high school, a black teen in a wheelchair (with a bone disease) had the nerve to stick up for himself after being repeatedly exposed to racial harassment. He got beat up for it.

My daughter (who is dark-skinned) has been told: "black Friday is when we kill all the black people" (she was 8 at the time), "black girls can't be pretty" (6), "I'm not allowed to be friends with black people" (at least twice that I know of), and she's been called [n-word] more times than I can count. She's had friends that have been asked questions like, "Why do you talk to that monkey?" and so on. This is more than just teasing or even bullying. My son, who is lighter skinned is given a lot more slack.

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[Ana the Ist]

I've also seen several cases, in multiple counties where police confront a person of color about a crime, because he "matches the description" (i.e., a black male with black hair and brown eyes). The police, then attempt to (illegally) restrain the person,

What is "illegally" restraining a person?

....the person does not promptly submit, and is charged with resisting a police officer (despite having no connection to the original crime).

You do realize that a cop is allowed to detain someone to investigate a crime regardless of whether or not that person committed the crime...right? How else would they investigate the crime lol?

 

[Kersh]

What is "illegally" restraining a person?



You do realize that a cop is allowed to detain someone to investigate a crime regardless of whether or not that person committed the crime...right? How else would they investigate the crime lol?

A police officer is allowed to ask questions to anyone, at anytime, for any reason. But, generally a citizen cannot be detained absent probable cause. In fact, you normally are free to ignore the officer and go about your day. So, when an officer attempts to handcuff a person without probable cause, that is an illegal restraint. A police officer may also briefly detain someone based on reasonable suspicion. But, this privilege is much more limited. Clearly, attempting to physically restrain a person because they are the same race as the suspect the police are looking for is not legit.

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[Paidiske]

Therein lies the problem. You know who you are and what you are capable of. Why is it a competition at all?

The next thing you know you are at each other, and picking at each others weaknesses ... and that ... is not racism or prejudice. It's our competitive nature, it's insecurity...and when it gets ugly...we call it something it's not, and blame someone else.

...Sorry, I liked what you said before. But I hope you can see the [real] problem. Racism and prejudice are only symptoms.

Well, most things aren't directly competition. But another poster framed it that way, and some things are competitive, so I answered with those things in mind.

An example: when I was in my fourth year of theological college, my college offered a scholarship to the best Greek student. This was to be determined by the results of a Greek exam. It was very likely that either I or another student (a man) would win; we were acknowledged to be the outstanding Greek students of our cohort. I worked hard to prepare for that exam.

I also fell pregnant that year, and my college refused to allow a modified academic programme to allow me to manage my pregnancy (I was very ill and told I was likely to miscarry). So they instead told me I could not be a student of the school while I was pregnant.

My fellow student won the scholarship, not because he was the best Greek student (he might have been) but because my pregnancy barred me from taking the exam.

That's what I meant by being given a handicap because of my sex.

Oh, and pre-emptively, I'm not even blaming men here; the dean of my college was a woman. Doesn't mean she wasn't acting in a sexist manner.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Tamir Rice is another example.....a kid

You're saying that if he was white, the cop would've responded differently?

Or are you saying that if he was white the person who called the police on him wouldn't have called?

 

[SummerMadness]

It's not?? What exactly is your contention here then? That once you wear a badge you suddenly become racist against blacks no matter what race you are? I know that sounds like a dumb question...but I don't know what else you could mean by "systemic" racism. This particular "system" is made up of people...of all different races.

Please read an article on institutional racism, it is not difficult to find an article on the topic.

So you're saying that the method they used to patrol this housing project, described as one of the most violent housing projects in New York, had nothing to do with the level of crime and everything to do with the race of its occupants? What's more...is you think these sort of incidents are common?

So's Law. Yes, I said all those things.