"On White Privilege"

[Ana the Ist]

A police officer is allowed to ask questions to anyone, at anytime, for any reason. But, generally a citizen cannot be detained absent probable cause.

From the sound of it, he had probable cause to detain your friend. He fit the description of a suspect they were looking for.

In fact, you normally are free to ignore the officer and go about your day.

If I cop attempts to engage you in casual conversation...you can ignore him. An indication of this is usually a question like, "Can I speak with you for a moment?"

So, when an officer attempts to handcuff a person without probable cause, that is an illegal restraint. A police officer may also briefly detain someone based on reasonable suspicion. But, this privilege is much more limited. Clearly, attempting to physically restrain a person because they are the same race as the suspect the police are looking for is not legit.

Lol and the cop told you that all he had to go on was race? They didn't have an approximate height, weight, age, clothing description? I suppose that's possible...but I've never heard of it. Generally speaking, a victim describing the criminal to the police can come up with something more than "he was black" lol.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Please read an article on institutional racism, it is not difficult to find an article on the topic.

Then link me one...don't expect me to make your argument for you.

So's Law. Yes, I said all those things.

I don't know what So's Law is. I'm just trying to make sense of what you're saying. Frankly, you aren't making it easy.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I was bullied by black kids when I was in school. I was also bullied by white kids. Race had little to do with it. It was because the kids who bullied me were jerks (and so was I to a considerable extent). But I also remember white kids standing outside of the school, yelling out that they were looking for some [n-word]s to stomp and picking off the first few who came out the door.

Just recently, in our local high school, a black teen in a wheelchair (with a bone disease) had the nerve to stick up for himself after being repeatedly exposed to racial harassment. He got beat up for it.

My daughter (who is dark-skinned) has been told: "black Friday is when we kill all the black people" (she was 8 at the time), "black girls can't be pretty" (6), "I'm not allowed to be friends with black people" (at least twice that I know of), and she's been called [n-word] more times than I can count. She's had friends that have been asked questions like, "Why do you talk to that monkey?" and so on. This is more than just teasing or even bullying. My son, who is lighter skinned is given a lot more slack.

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It's a shame ain't it? I had black friends in high school who weren't allowed to have me over to their house because I'm white. They said that they were taught to hate white people growing up. I've had latino coworkers tell me the same thing.

It was baffling to me at the time since my parents never said or did anything racist. The only thing that I can remember my dad even saying that was remotely racist was whenever an attractive black woman was on t.v., he'd say, "She must have a little Hawaiian in her."

 

[SummerMadness]

Then link me one...don't expect me to make your argument for you.

I'm not going to teach you a concept like institutional racism. This is not a new idea or an argument, this is like someone demanding a link to the prisoner's dilemma because they don't know what it is, yet it's a simple concept with plenty of literature concerning the subject. This topic has been mentioned and discussed several times throughout this thread, at this point this is nothing more than laziness as a means to reject an idea, "If you don't provide me links about institutional racism, then it doesn't exist."

I don't know what So's Law is. I'm just trying to make sense of what you're saying. Frankly, you aren't making it easy.

Beginning a question with "so" followed by a statement as a question that is nothing more than a straw man.

 

[nightflight]

I'm not going to teach you a concept like institutional racism. This is not a new idea or an argument, this is like someone demanding a link to the prisoner's dilemma because they don't know what it is, yet it's a simple concept with plenty of literature concerning the subject. This topic has been mentioned and discussed several times throughout this thread, at this point this is nothing more than laziness as a means to reject an idea, "If you don't provide me links about institutional racism, then it doesn't exist."

Rejecting opinion is not "laziness", its simply rejecting opinion.

#tolerance

 

[Kersh]

From the sound of it, he had probable cause to detain your friend. He fit the description of a suspect they were looking for.




If I cop attempts to engage you in casual conversation...you can ignore him. An indication of this is usually a question like, "Can I speak with you for a moment?"



Lol and the cop told you that all he had to go on was race? They didn't have an approximate height, weight, age, clothing description? I suppose that's possible...but I've never heard of it. Generally speaking, a victim describing the criminal to the police can come up with something more than "he was black" lol.

I've had several clients in these types of situations. "A black guy" is a pretty common description given to police, and I've seen several situations where police thought this probable cause to stop any black male.

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[Kersh]

It's a shame ain't it? I had black friends in high school who weren't allowed to have me over to their house because I'm white. They said that they were taught to hate white people growing up. I've had latino coworkers tell me the same thing.

It was baffling to me at the time since my parents never said or did anything racist. The only thing that I can remember my dad even saying that was remotely racist was whenever an attractive black woman was on t.v., he'd say, "She must have a little Hawaiian in her."

In your high school, were whites either a majority or plurality? If so, you're comparing apples and oranges here.

And, how many of your teachers were POCs? Did the ratio of white to non-white teachers roughly match the student body? If your school is like most, I doubt it.

The point is that when a person from a people group with limited power says, "you can't be my friend, because of your race", it's sad. When a person from a group with relatively more power says the same, it can be disenfranchising, especially when it becomes a pattern.

I don't know your situation, but the experience of most white people who claim to have been victims of racism pales in comparison to the experiences of POCs. I say this as someone who has seen both sides; not many people have.

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[Ana the Ist]

I'm not going to teach you a concept like institutional racism. This is not a new idea or an argument, this is like someone demanding a link to the prisoner's dilemma because they don't know what it is, yet it's a simple concept with plenty of literature concerning the subject. This topic has been mentioned and discussed several times throughout this thread, at this point this is nothing more than laziness as a means to reject an idea, "If you don't provide me links about institutional racism, then it doesn't exist."

The problem with your request is that when I choose an article about institutional racism...and then proceed to show it's flaws and weaknesses/inaccuracies/assumptions...you'll just claim that I chose a poor article or one that inaccurately represents institutional racism.

This is why if you want to argue that something is institutional racism....you should be the one to provide the evidence for it. I'm not sure if it's more accurate to describe your request that I find evidence to support your argument and then calling me lazy for not doing it as hypocrisy or irony...but I'm sure one of those words fits.

Beginning a question with "so" followed by a statement as a question that is nothing more than a straw man.

Well what is the racist part of what happened in that incident? That's what I'm asking you...you're the one who described it as racist, is it that hard to point out the racism? Is it because they were patrolling one of the most violent places in the city? Is it because they had their guns out? What's the racist part?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I've had several clients in these types of situations. "A black guy" is a pretty common description given to police, and I've seen several situations where police thought this probable cause to stop any black male.

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You're a criminal lawyer?

 

[Ana the Ist]

In your high school, were whites either a majority or plurality? If so, you're comparing apples and oranges here.

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Whites were a minority.

 

[Kersh]

You're a criminal lawyer?

Yes.

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[Kersh]

Whites were a minority.

Interesting.

On a side note, I find it troubling how many times you have loled in this exchange. I'm trying to figure out what is lol-worthy about racism and white privilege.

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[nightflight]

Yes.

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Is your name Atticus?

 

[Kersh]

Is your name Atticus?

Nope. About 50 years too young for that mold.

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[nightflight]

Nope. About 50 years too young for that mold.

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There are many wannabees running about......'specially here!

 

[Kersh]

There are many wannabees running about......'specially here!

I wouldn't "wannabe" Atticus Finch. That was a hard time and place to be an ethical criminal defense lawyer.

On a more serious note, I tend to take people at their word on here. If some person I don't know, on the Internet, wants to tell stories, that's on them.

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[SummerMadness]

Rejecting opinion is not "laziness", its simply rejecting opinion.

#tolerance

He did not understand the term systemic racism, I told him to look up institutional racism, it's really simple. The definition of institutional racism is not an opinion. The fact that there is a reference to individuals and racism and not understanding what systemic means demonstrates he does not actually know the definition of the word. This could all be solved by simply typing "institutional racism" into a search engine, clicking the first link (likely Wikipedia), and reading the first sentence. That's it.

 

[A2SG]

Enabling, supporting, and chiming in on the backlashes of those who cry, "Unfair!" may not be blaming others in so many words, but it does point the finger to those who...simply...do not cry out. It is that finger pointing that make this all unjust.

I'm not pointing fingers. If someone else is, feel free to discuss that with them.

-- A2SG, will take full responsibility for everything I say, but not for anything I did not say....

 

[Ana the Ist]

In your high school, were whites either a majority or plurality? If so, you're comparing apples and oranges here.

And, how many of your teachers were POCs? Did the ratio of white to non-white teachers roughly match the student body? If your school is like most, I doubt it.

The point is that when a person from a people group with limited power says, "you can't be my friend, because of your race", it's sad. When a person from a group with relatively more power says the same, it can be disenfranchising, especially when it becomes a pattern.

I don't know your situation, but the experience of most white people who claim to have been victims of racism pales in comparison to the experiences of POCs. I say this as someone who has seen both sides; not many people have.

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I didn't do a head count of which teachers were white and which weren't. I could give you a guess...but I honestly don't know what the point would be.

My black friends didn't say that we couldn't be friends...we just couldn't have their parents find out i was their friend. They had grown up thinking/being taught that all whites were racist and, for lack of a better word, evil. It wasn't until they were older that they were able to see past those views. Certainly though, there were plenty of blacks who never did see past that viewpoint.

 

[A2SG]

That is what's being said...

White privilege is a problem, right?

What's the cause of that problem?

Lots of things. Wanna discuss those things, or would you rather find a scapegoat and assign blame?

I'm more than willing to do the former, but I'm not interested in the latter.

There is a pattern...it's the behavior of the black men who get shot. Whether they were shooting at police, fighting them, trying to take their gun, etc.

When this was studied it was found that black police shoot black suspects at the same rate as white police. That's a rather strong indication that something other than racism is at play.

EXACTLY!!!!

(is there a way to make letters flash in bright neon lights here?)

My point exactly!!!!

This is a systemic problem, one that has nothing to do with whether or not an individual is racist!!!!

And they are...in fact it's the only job I can think of where people expect other people to be perfect and never make mistakes.

Kinda comes with the territory when your job entails you having the power to end someone's life. And as Stan Lee famously said, with great power COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY.

Well since we know racism isn't the cause (see above)...

A point I've been trying to make since the start, I might add....

perhaps we should look at other factors that could be at play here?

Please! Let's do!!!

Like...why do black men resist and shoot at police at a higher rate than their white counterparts?

Sure, let's look at that.

What do black people say when you ask them about that?

And what do you mean "we shouldn't ignore it"? I can't count how many white privilege threads I've seen on these forums in the past year....I can't think of one where blacks asked other blacks "what's causing all this violence in our own community and how can we fix it?"

Maybe because that wouldn't be covered under a topic of "white privilege"?

But I do know, for a fact, that there are many people in black communities who are discussing that very thing with others in the community. As to why they're not discussing it with the rest of us....well, think about that a moment.

The only real difference is that one asks everyone else to change...the other requires you to change yourself. One is easy to do but gets you nowhere...the other is difficult but gets results.

If the problem is systemic, how does an individual changing his own behavior address the problem in the system?

Remember my friend, the surgeon, from earlier? How can he change his behavior to prevent himself from being stopped by police for no reason whatsoever?

-- A2SG, he's an excellent driver, and has never had a single accident, ever.....