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"On White Privilege"

whatbogsends

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I agree that a phenomena of "white privilege" exists. In fact, i'd say it's fairly obvious that it does.

The problem, however, in these discussions, is that the people arguing for white privilege, generally try to argue it as an absolute; that is to say, they argue that it is solely because of white privilege (and the underlying racism) that unequal results happen. They argue that until results are equal among different races, that racism is at play in skewing those results.

I find that most articles and studies that try to quantify white privilege do a poor job of quantifying this privilege, because race is almost never the sole difference. No two people are "equal", not to mention the populations of multiple demographic groups.

Perceived problem: Whites, and specifically white men, are over represented in positions of power and prestige.

Argument by white privilege advocates
: The over representation of white people in positions of power and prestige is a reflection on inherent advantage given to white people by white people. If no "white privilege" existed, then blacks would occupy a number of positions of power and prestige as their proportion in the general population.

Question: Is it not possible that there are, in fact, other racial factors (differences) that come into play?

Additional questions, the answers to which helps provide an answer to the much more general question, above: In both the NFL and NBA blacks are very much over represented relative to their proportion in the general population, and whites are very much under represented relative to their proportion in the general population. Are these disproportions a results of some sort of "pro-black" racism, or is it not possible, that there are other racial factors (differences) that come into play? If the measure of of a level playing field is the equality of results (as opposed to ...shudder...genetic differences), shouldn't we then expect these arenas to also have populations proportionate to the general population?

Again, let's be clear. I'm not denying that white privilege does, indeed exist. I'm not denying that white privilege does, as a whole, skew results to give advantages to people based upon race. My questions pertain to the assessment of the impact of white privilege and the false assumptions of what results a lack of white privilege would yield.
 
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South Bound

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I suggest reading the whole article (below) it is only one short page
http://www.tolerance.org/article/racism-and-white-privilege

Excerpted from White Anti-Racist Activism: A Personal Roadmap by Jennifer R. Holladay, M.S. (Crandall, Dostie & Douglass Books, Inc., 2000) and published in the magazine Teaching Tolerance, a project by The Southern Poverty Law Canter

"On White Privilege
White skin privilege is not something that white people necessarily do, create or enjoy on purpose. Unlike the more overt individual and institutional manifestations of racism described above, white skin privilege is a transparent preference for whiteness that saturates our society. White skin privilege serves several functions. First, it provides white people with “perks” that we do not earn and that people of color do not enjoy. Second, it creates real advantages for us. White people are immune to a lot of challenges. Finally, white privilege shapes the world in which we live — the way that we navigate and interact with one another and with the world."


Can we finally agree that white privilege exists? Yes or No?

I have heard it said by some prominent people (Namely Talib Kwieli Green Artist and philosopher) that those who do not acknowledge white privilege are racist. Yes or No?

Forget white privilege. I want black privilege.

Black privilege is the belief that the government owes you free stuff, that you're not responsible for your failure or the consequences of your actions, and that anything bad that happens to you must be the result of some conspiracy by the white man.
 
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tatteredsoul

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I think this thread is dead (in a good way.) I think it is clear to both members and non-member spectators what white privilege is, if it exists, and who can perpetuate it. It has been eloquently explained numerous times, and it isn't the fault or folly of others that those explanations, first-hand accounts, anecdotes and scholarly summation are ignored, or rejected.

Right now, most of us are just going in circles, answering the same questions and attempting to explain what has been made clear to the usual suspects.
 
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The Cadet

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I reject their concepts. No straw-man needed.

So why do you keep claiming it's about guilt when we keep saying it isn't?

My father feared starvation, polio, freezing to death, things like that. To say his and his people had privilege is laughable.

And African-Americans living back then feared starvation, polio, freezing to death, getting lynched for joining a union with virtually no chance of justice ever being served (because nobody cared if you lynched a negro back then), getting rejected from unions because of their skin color, getting fired because of their skin color, not being hired because of their skin color, and "things like that"!

I don't understand why this is such a hard concept. I really don't. Yeah, your father had it rough. I believe you! The great depression sucked for everyone. But it sucked a whole lot worse if your skin was black.

Look, think of it like this: imagine history as a video game. The 1930s was a hard level, regardless of what difficulty you were playing it on. But black people happened to be playing it on hard mode, and your father played it on normal. It's still really hard on normal mode, and I won't take that accomplishment away from your father (think "normal mode" on "I Want To Be The Guy"), but his privilege was in having it just that much easier than African-Americans, who were just as likely to have the same problems your father did, but in addition were all but guaranteed to have a lot of other severe problems based entirely on the fact that they were black.

This is not that hard of a concept. If two guys are forced to run an ultramarathon, then it's going to be hard for both of them. But if one of them is additionally forced to run it wearing full combat gear, then it doesn't matter that the other guy got blisters and had a hard time of it and hated it, the guy with the combat gear still had it harder.

When whites become a numeric minority, none of this will matter anyway.

Yeah! Just like the Shiite majority in Saddam's Iraq had all the political power! Because black people in South Africa hold all the political, economic, and social power! Because the world is absolutely as simple and as straightforward as you think it is!
 
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tatteredsoul

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Forget white privilege. I want black privilege.

Black privilege is the belief that the government owes you free stuff, that you're not responsible for your failure or the consequences of your actions, and that anything bad that happens to you must be the result of some conspiracy by the white man.

Very interesting choice of avatar picture...

(Wow...)
 
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The Cadet

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Forget white privilege. I want black privilege.

Black privilege is the belief that the government owes you free stuff, that you're not responsible for your failure or the consequences of your actions, and that anything bad that happens to you must be the result of some conspiracy by the white man.
...Okay, anyone who didn't actually see who made this post, I want you to just take one guess what this person's avatar is. I guarantee most of you will get it. ;)
 
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Vylo

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...Okay, anyone who didn't actually see who made this post, I want you to just take one guess what this person's avatar is. I guarantee most of you will get it. ;)
I just jumped back into the thread and saw this.

Just wow.....
 
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tatteredsoul

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And African-Americans living back then feared starvation, polio, freezing to death, getting lynched for joining a union with virtually no chance of justice ever being served (because nobody cared if you lynched a negro back then), getting rejected from unions because of their skin color, getting fired because of their skin color, not being hired because of their skin color, and "things like that"!

I was thinking in my head, "black people had to go through polio and depression, AND lynching, racism, beatings, rape, unemployment because of color, commercial exploitation..."

I laughed out loud when I saw your response.
 
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The Cadet

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I was thinking in my head, "black people had to go through polio and depression, AND lynching, racism, beatings, rape, unemployment because of color, commercial exploitation..."

I laughed out loud when I saw your response.
Seriously!

@nightflight maybe this will help. Here's a Venn diagram showing the things any white man might have had to deal with during the great depression, and the things any black man might have had to deal with during the great depression.

proof of concept.PNG


Notice something? While both sides have some significant issues (starvation, freezing, polio), there are a great many issues that are unique to black people. The fact that white people never had to deal with any of those issues? That's white privilege.
 
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seashale76

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The other day, my 10-year-old daughter was playing in the front yard when a truck drove by and the driver yelled out the n-word. Each school year, she has had at least one instance in which a classmate has made a comment to her suggesting that she is of less value because she has brown skin. Are these common experiences for white children?

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I was bullied mercilessly in the seventh grade by a group of eighth grade girls that all happened to be black. Racial slurs were thrown my way every day, food was thrown at me in the cafeteria every day, I was pushed into lockers, people got in my face and threatened to beat my head in. It was 100% unprovoked. I had to eat lunch with the eighth graders that year and was told that I allegedly 'stared' at someone one day, which apparently set the whole thing off. One girl did apologize to me at the end of the school year, telling me she knew they were all wrong. However, going to school that year was hell. I was afraid to go. Administrators did nothing (one even watched them do their usual thing toward me and still did nothing).

Do not think white people never experience this type of thing. It does happen. Bullying is a big problem in schools and it happens to a lot of people of many races and ethnicities for a variety of reasons.
 
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ScottA

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Can we finally agree that white privilege exists? Yes or No?
No...in fact racism doesn't exist. It did...and it may still exist in some rare and remote locations - but, I am proud to say - my generation (growing up in the '60s and 70s) we whipped it! People of color went from minority status to hero status, in everything from industry, to medicine, to education, to movies, and music.

No, what exists now is strictly political, or a self-imposed, unfounded inferiority complex, or worse: a white on white guilt trip.

We ARE different - we are - so what? My generation made it cool. No, what we got here, is a different problem entirely.
 
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nightflight

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Seriously!

@nightflight maybe this will help. Here's a Venn diagram showing the things any white man might have had to deal with during the great depression, and the things any black man might have had to deal with during the great depression.

View attachment 173956

Notice something? While both sides have some significant issues (starvation, freezing, polio), there are a great many issues that are unique to black people. The fact that white people never had to deal with any of those issues? That's white privilege.

Had? As in the past?

What's yer beef?
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Forget white privilege. I want black privilege.

Black privilege is the belief that the government owes you free stuff, that you're not responsible for your failure or the consequences of your actions, and that anything bad that happens to you must be the result of some conspiracy by the white man.
That flag you have as an avatar is the flag of an enemy of the United States of America. I would have no problem burning or otherwise desecrating that God-forsaken flag - it comes from the pits of hell and out of the mind of Satan himself. It is anti-God and anti-American.

As for free stuff, the entire south lives on free stuff that I pay for. You should practice what you preach and stop taking all the free stuff you are currently taking - but of course you enjoy living off the government teat so you won't.
 
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