"On White Privilege"

[tatteredsoul]

My ex girlfriend was from Rangoon, and lived in the states for six months. Six months in the states (and whatever trash about race was exported to Myanmar) was enough for her to understand the dynamics of race here.

Her observation: "Chinese Burmese treat native/dark skinned Burmese like white people treat blacks in America." (If anyone is familiar with Chinese-Burmese history, relations and tensions, you know how poignant her statement is.)

Makes no sense dancing around the issue; someone "fresh off the boat" can understand the sociological dynamics better than people who were born and raised in Americans claim.

 

[tatteredsoul]

You'd probably appreciate the following resources from others addressing the issue:

• Red Tails: Using Privilege for good? - By Their Strange Fruit (http://bytheirstrangefruit.blogspot.com/p/topical-index.html )
  
  
• Identity in a White-Default World
  
• Incarceration: The New Jim Crow - By Their Strange Fruit
  
• Friday Fruit (04/29/16)
• Friday Fruit (04/05/13)
• Microaggressions - By Their Strange Fruit
• aRacism in Academic Admissions - By Their Strange Fruit
  
• Timeline of Racism (Part 2) - By Their Strange Fruit

I just want to focus on your link about movies.

The irony is that as liberal as people CLAIM Hollywood is, it sure is selective about the "type" of movies that include minorities - as well as the benefits and worth. That isn't liberalism; it is capitalism (albeit capitalism with a prejudice.) There are 216,000,000 white people in America, and a few billion worldwide. Their demand comes from the majority population, so their supply will cater to majority popualation. It isn't right, but if people really think Hollywood is about liberalism, then what does that make those people who say that given Hollywood's pattern?

Hollywood struggles to create show and movies that show black and Latino people in a positive, educated and powerful light. If they do, the producers make sure to take out insurance on the movie because it is almost guaranteed to make less than budget. Denzel Washington - out of all the great positive roles he played - won an Oscar for being a crooked LAPD officer. Halle Berry won her Oscar for being the whoring plaything for another man. How demeaning; that is why Denzel said the night of the Oscar win, "killed two birds with one stone." They did, because before that no African Americans had won for best leading actor/actress. Blacks and Latinos are most often gangsters or uneducated. And, if they are somewhat educated there is always someone non-black to "approve" their actions, or to dictate them.

Lucy Liu in Charlie's angels is an example I use sometimes about non-liberal, consumerist Hollywood. Cameron Diaz made $29 Million for her role in Charlie's Angels, Drew Barrymore made $21 Million (and she was the producer.) Lucy Liu made $4 Million. Unbelievable, considering Liu probably did a good amount of her own stunt choreography. And, many other Asian actors are taken advantage in Hollywood. But, ultimately that happens because demand dictates that. If the majority of people wanted to see minorities in more powerful/leadership roles, then Hollywood would supply that. But, they dont.

There are a lot of great actors who never get a break because their "look" is not in supply.

 

[nightflight]

My ex girlfriend was from Rangoon, and lived in the states for six months. Six months in the states (and whatever trash about race was exported to Myanmar) was enough for her to understand the dynamics of race here.

Her observation: "Chinese Burmese treat native/dark skinned Burmese like white people treat blacks in America." (If anyone is familiar with Chinese-Burmese history, relations and tensions, you know how poignant her statement is.)

Makes no sense dancing around the issue; someone "fresh off the boat" can understand the sociological dynamics better than people who were born and raised in Americans claim.

Maybe she's a racist and sees through that lens.

 

[nightflight]

Lucy Liu in Charlie's angels is an example I use sometimes about non-liberal, consumerist Hollywood. Cameron Diaz made $29 Million for her role in Charlie's Angels, Drew Barrymore made $21 Million (and she was the producer.) Lucy Liu made $4 Million. Unbelievable, considering Liu probably did a good amount of her own stunt choreography. And, many other Asian actors are taken advantage in Hollywood. But, ultimately that happens because demand dictates that. If the majority of people wanted to see minorities in more powerful/leadership roles, then Hollywood would supply that. But, they dont.

So the Hispanic chic got paid more than the white chic and the Asian chic.

We have a long way to go.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Maybe she's a racist and sees through that lens.

So the Hispanic chic got paid more than the white chic and the Asian chic.

We have a long way to go.

Cameron Diaz is Scots-Irish, English, German, and Spanish. She is not from Hispanola, and therefore NOT hispanic (Hispanic is someat derogatory, especally as a blanket description for people of Spanish descent who are from Atlantic and gulf islands.)

Seriously...

 

[nightflight]

Cameron Diaz is Scots-Irish, English, German, and Spanish. She is not from Hispanola, and therefore NOT hispanic (Hispanic is someat derogatory, especally as a blanket description for people of Spanish descent who are from Atlantic and gulf islands.)

Seriously...

Her father was Spanish via Cuba. Or should we go by some kind of Nuremberg Laws type criteria to determine who is truly Hispanic? Is there a melanin test to prove who's what?

edit: Funny how George Zimmerman, a guy darker than Obama can be called a "white Hispanic".

 

[tatteredsoul]

Maybe she's a racist and sees through that lens.

Do you even know what happened during the Chinese-Burmese conflicts? Do you know why Burma was changed to Myanmar? If you actually knew what happened there, you would say what you said.

And for you to say that means you most certainly don't know what racism is - and have ignored the myriad of explanations throughout this thread. Moreover, given the OP, I dont see how you can even comprehend privilege if you think a Burmese girl almost pushed out of her own country by invading foreigners who make her people assimilate to their culture is RACIST. Although, that type of backward projection definitely sounds like the way America works: enslave and genocide a people, then force them to assimilate. And, if they dont: create a derision of them. If they have the audacity to cry foul treatment tell them to get over it, and that their complaints and oppression don't exist.

I am not calling you this, but your comment about my ex was asinine at best.

 

[nightflight]

Do you even know what happened during the Chinese-Burmese conflicts? Do you know why Burma was changed to Myanmar? If you actually knew what happened there, you would say what you said.

And for you to say that means you most certainly don't know what racism is - and have ignored the myriad of explanations throughout this thread. Moreover, given the OP, I dont see how you can even comprehend privilege if you think a Burmese girl almost pushed out of her own country by invading foreigners who make her people assimilate to their culture is RACIST. Although, that type of backward projection definitely sounds like the way America works: enslave and genocide a people, then force them to assimilate. And, if they dont: create a derision of them. If they have the audacity to cry foul treatment tell them to get over it, and that their complaints and oppression don't exist.

I am not calling you this, but your comment about my ex was asinine at best.

Why should I believe your "girlfriend" knows what she's talking about? She lived here for six months. Not enough time to soak up the state of America, but definitely enough time to imbibe a social justice narrative.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Her father was Cuban. Or should we go by some kind of Nuremberg Laws type criteria to determine who is truly Hispanic?

Cuban is not hispanic. Cuban is cuban. Hispanic is a ridiculous blanketed ethnicity given to anyone that speaks Spanish and is from the gulf or Atlantic islands. It is a slavery term, actually - for when Haiti and the Dominican Republic were referred to as Hispanola.

To go even further, the SPANISH settled on Cuba, and had families there. Spanish peolle from Spain are considered caucasian. Why do you think on the US census there is a choice between White - Latino, and White - Non-Latino? Because Latinos (another blanket ethnicity given) can be 100% Caucasian and have Spanish names given the Spanish were prominently involved in the slave trade and expeditions to the West side of the Atlantic.

Again, this has to do with either choosing to ignore these things, and making up your own classification, projection, or honest misunderstanding.

And the fact you are focused on her Caucasian Father's name from Cuba, and not the point, illuminates your position. You do realize the difference between ethnicity and nationality, right?

 

[nightflight]

Cuban is not hispanic. Cuban is cuban. Hispanic is a ridiculous blanketed ethnicity given to anyone that speaks Spanish and is from the gulf or Atlantic islands. It is a slavery term, actually - for when Haiti and the Dominican Republic were referred to as Hispanola.

To go even further, the SPANISH settled on Cuba, and had families there. Spanish peolle from Spain are considered caucasian. Why do you think on the US census there is a choice between White - Latino, and White - Non-Latino? Because Latinos (another blanket ethnicity given) can be 100% Caucasian and have Spanish names given the Spanish were prominently involved in the slave trade and expeditions to the West side of the Atlantic.

Again, this has to do with either choosing to ignore these things, and making up your own classification, projection, or honest misunderstanding.

And the fact you are focused on her Caucasian Father's name from Cuba, and not the point, illuminates your position. You do realize the difference between ethnicity and nationality, right?

"The U.S. Census Bureau defines the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race" and states thatHispanics or Latinos can be of any race, any ancestry, any ethnicity."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

Officially, however, the U.S. Government has defined Hispanic or Latino persons as being "persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central and South America, and other Spanish cultures". This includes Spain and Portugal which is the origin of Hispanic/Iberian culture.[37] The United States Census uses theethnonymHispanic or Latino to refer to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Hispanic culture or origin regardless of race.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

 

[tatteredsoul]

Why should I believe your "girlfriend" knows what she's talking about? She lived here for six months. Not enough time to soak up the state of America, but definitely enough time to imbibe a social justice narrative.

Six months is plenty of time if your eyes are open.

And, don't back pedal now; you insulted her experience and my intelligence with your flippant and shallow response to a very serious issue. Like I said, no one who knew even a bit about the Burmese-Chinese relations would say what you said.

You don't have to believe her; you have already shown who you are, and what you think. Take care; I am not derailing this thread of explaining the implications and sociological meaning of race, privilege and discriminatory practices that feed these things. Certainly, I won't do that with you while you insult the intelligence of people who almost lost their lives trying to escape terrors - calling THEM the racists, and accusing them of myopia.

 

[tatteredsoul]

"The U.S. Census Bureau defines the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race" and states thatHispanics or Latinos can be of any race, any ancestry, any ethnicity."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

Grow up. Wikipedia is trash.

Give me fifteen minutes, and I will change the definition. Then, you quote that one. You are really showing yourself.

 

[nightflight]

And, don't back pedal now; you insulted her experience and my intelligence with your flippant and shallow response to a very serious issue. Like I said, no one who knew even a bit about the Burmese-Chinese relations would say what you said.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

You don't have to believe her; you have already shown who you are, and what you think.

Who am I?

Take care; I am not derailing this thread of explaining the implications and sociological meaning of race, privilege and discriminatory practices that feed these things. Certainly, I won't do that with you while you insult the intelligence of people who almost lost their lives trying to escape terrors - calling THEM the racists, and accusing them of myopia.

Then please continue to hold everyday people guilty of invisible crimes based on their genetic history. G'day.

 

[nightflight]

Grow up. Wikipedia is trash.

Give me fifteen minutes, and I will change the definition. Then, you quote that one. You are really showing yourself.

Full Definition of Hispanic

1. 1: of or relating to the people, speech, or culture of Spain or of Spain and Portugal
2. 2: of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in the United States;especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Hispanic

 

[tatteredsoul]

NYT is much more reputable than wikipedia:

"To say Hispanic means you're so colonized you don't even know for yourself or someone who named you never bothered to ask what you call yourself. It's a repulsive slave name."

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/w...-problem-with-hispanic-just-ask-a-latino.html
For those that actually care...

 

[nightflight]

NYT is much more reputable than wikipedia:

"To say Hispanic means you're so colonized you don't even know for yourself or someone who named you never bothered to ask what you call yourself. It's a repulsive slave name."

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/w...-problem-with-hispanic-just-ask-a-latino.html
For those that actually care...

I use a dictionary, you use an opinion piece.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I use a dictionary, you use an opinion piece.

Diction has been subjective ever since "bootylicious" was entered into the lexicon. Indeed, it was already downhill as a reference for diction long before.

Language is more than diction.

And, don't forget you used Wikipedia to justify your argument on the complexities of race, ethnicities and cultural nuances.

 

[nightflight]

Diction has been subjective ever since "bootylicious" was entered into the lexicon. Indeed, it was already downhill as a reference for diction long before.

Language is more than diction.

And, don't forget you used Wikipedia to justify your argument on the complexities of race, ethnicities and cultural nuances.

And you used some guy from the NYT. so.....

 

[ArmenianJohn]

It's so easy to spot the racists in here - they are the ones who will say anything, no matter how inane, to defend racism.

 

[nightflight]

It's so easy to spot the racists in here - they are the ones who will say anything, no matter how inane, to defend racism.

I know right? Just being white makes one guilty and the owner of "privilege".