On the value of Vaccines.

[expos4ever]

Can you prove my immune system won't fight of the virus.

This is like asking someone to 'prove' that I, a 60 plus year old guy with spindly legs, can win the 100 meter dash at the Olympics. Theoretically possible, yes. Realistically possible, no.

Look: As others have argued, there is abundant evidence that shows that eating well and taking care of yourself is not enough to prevent certain viral infections.

 

[Paulos23]

Yet a vaccine can at times through the immune enhancement phenomenon make the virus more deadly.

What is your source on that?

Have they ever yet created a scientifically provenly effective vaccine against a Coronovirus ?

Not yet, but we have a good reason to do so now.

Similarly you realize that some medicines that you take when your actually sick suppress things like sneezing and coughing which actually prohibits the body from expelling the poisons of the sickness.

You are talking about minor symptoms. I am talking about things like lungs filling with fluid (1918 flu) and cytokine storms. Both are overreactions of healthy immune systems to viruses.

You don't know how your immune system is going to react to a virus until it does. The only sure thing we do know is that a vaccine helps the immune system fight it early before it overreacts.

 

[expos4ever]

Healthy to me means as healthy as a normal person who has no underlying medical problems can become using rational methods of nutrition, activity, and rest to purposely achieve it.

If that is you in your avatar, I suggest you need to dial back on the healthy eating and the rest - your pelt is getting just a tad too glossy.

 

[Billy UK]

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[Ophiolite]

Why is their danger if my immune system is able to fight of the virus.

Points missed by you:

• You have not demonstrated that your immune system can fight off the virus.
• You have not demonstrated that a healthy immune system is the only thing required to fight off the virus.
  
• You have not defined the characteristics of a healthy immune system
  
• You have ignored the point, made by @Paulos23, that a functioning immune system is part of the problem.
  
• You have not demonstrated that the immune systems of others can be brought to the same level you claim for your own in an acceptable time frame.

If we ignore these oversights on your part then the danger might, or might not, be minimal.

Can you prove my immune system won't fight of the virus.

The onus is upon you to prove that it can. There is an easy way to test that, but I don't recommend it. Given your intransigent position on the matter you would likely create a local spike of infections while "proving" the effectiveness of your immune system.

Justify your fear and present your evidence to show that healthy immune systems are not currently fighting of COVID19 by those who understand how to correctly use diet and nutrition which has been scientifically proven to affect the immune systems' ability to function.

I have no fears in the matter, but informed concerns.

I do however acknowledge that:

• You have confirmed you are obsessed with the notion that a healthy immune system alonecan fight of the virus.
• You have failed to provide any evidence to support this
  
• You have ignored the contrary evidence that this is not the case
• You assert, with no justification that the problem can be solved through correct diet and nutrition
• You offer no data on how long correct diet and nutrition would need to be in place in order to produce the benefits you claim.
• You propose no mechanism to ensure that the population at large follows this program of correct diet and nutrition. (I note, en passant, that you don't even explain the redundant use of diet and nutrition.)
• Etc.

Summary: you have a half-baked, insular, unsupported, mind-fart of an idea.
Your concern is to be applauded.
Your solution is to be dismissed.

 

[expos4ever]

By your own line of reasoning, you are yourself a danger to those who are unvaccinated due to certain diet choices you could possibly be making. For example, why should someone have the right to be allowed to eat certain foods and sugars which suppresses the immune system. These choices make them more susceptible to contagious diseases which make you more of a threat to people who cannot be vaccinated.

To be fair to you, I think this is a valid point to at least raise. However, I think it ultimately is not practical. And here is why:

When it comes to vaccinations as a means to suppress disease, we know that they provide high degrees of protection with very little risk. In short, we know how to implement a vaccination program and make it work. We know that, say, 2 weeks after being vaccinated, the risk of a person getting the disease is, say, 1 in 10,000.

When it comes to diet, however, there is much more uncertainty and other problems:

1. We simply do not know if it is even possible to achieve the same effectiveness as a vaccination intervention;

2. We do not know what diet choices to propose to achieve efficacy;

3. It is much harder for someone to comply with a diet regime and than to get a vaccine. I suspect you will say that people just need to be responsible for themselves. I think that is a noble sentiment, but deeply unrealistic. It is much, much easier to get people to get vaccinated than to changes their diet.

In any event, I can almost guarantee you that item 1 torpedoes the proposal that we use diet - I would be shocked if a duly qualified expert would agree that diet can achieve the same level of effectiveness as vaccination.

 

[Billy UK]

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[Billy UK]

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[Billy UK]

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[Ophiolite]

Maybe if you read the statistics you will realise that many many people have fought off the virus with their immune systems which yes evidence that the immune system alone can fight off the virus.

Boy, oh boy. My writing skills must have gone downhill.

The only way your POV matters is if we don't give a flying aardvark about the people whose immune systems cannot fight off the virus. We require a solution that works for as close to 100% of the population as possible. Your solution patently fails to do so and you fail to provide any means by which it might do so and also appear largely indifferent to the fact that it won't.

 

[Billy UK]

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[Ophiolite]

Just one example out of many I could choose refined sugar if a person chooses to eat this will their immune system have greater difficulty fighting off the virus ?

Is this important to a person who is currently more susceptible through a weakened immune system ?

Since you appear to be pathologically incapable of paying the slightest heed to anything you are told, I will not be wasting anymore time on you.

 

[Billy UK]

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[Billy UK]

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[Subduction Zone]

I mean mandatory vaccination.

Why do you need to limit the activity of those who refuse vaccination considering that those who have been vaccinated are supposedly now protected ?

Do you have the right to eat sugar considering it suppresses your immune system which causes you to be more susceptible to COVID19 ? How much free will choice should you be allowed as what if next year a worse mutation arises that bypasses vaccinations all in all your poor choices could really affect others and put them at risk.

The unvaccinated put others at risk. A person may have a right to refuse a vaccination. People do not have the right to put others at risk.

As to your sugar claim that wold put a burden of proof upon you. By the way, I am not much for sweets. I rarely eat desert. I drink my coffee black. I do not like ketchup because it has sugar in it (actually high fructose corn syrup).

 

[Subduction Zone]

So does evolution, but somehow you believe it to be intelligent.

Wait, are you now admitting that you deny reality?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Scientific studies show that nutrition does play a role with disease and Immuno response and prevention.

Therefore those who preach to me that my choice to refuse vaccination is endangering others are themselves not practicing the ideology they are preaching if they are choosing to eat what they choose to. They are likewise putting the unvaccinated at risk through exercising their freewill.

Yes, they play a role. But there is more to immune response than just diet. No one has denied that diet plays a role, well except for you when you accuse others of doing that. Yes, a healthy diet will probably make a person more likely to fight off any disease. But it is not a reliable solution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So does evolution, but somehow you believe it to be intelligent.

What?

 

[Billy UK]

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[Paulos23]

Dr hotex spoke on it and explained its why extra care is needed and why things should not be rushed through.

I think you mean Dr Hotez, and ok. That doesn't mean we need to avoid vaccines all together, just do the testing to make sure they are safe.

With cytokine storms how can you prove that those who experience the abnormal condition have a normal healthy immune system which is not somewhat deficient in something which causes it to act like that ?

How do you know they don't? How do you know that you don't? That is my point, sometimes you don't know how your immune system is going to react to a virus.

If this symptom is recognized they have drugs that can calm down the immune system given that a correct diagnosis is applied.

True, if it is caught in time.

Look, I am not trying to be all doom and gloom here. But saying by eating healthy and keeping healthy is enough is not the truth. The truth is, you can think you are healthy and still be hit with this virus hard enough to require to go to the hospital.

Don't fool yourself into thinking you will be fine.