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I feel that you are taking the statement made by Florida College and running with it.FreeinChrist said:I am not trying to be rude in not responding to you. But at this point, I really don't want to continue in this thread because it has led to what I consider awful statements by one equating God's grace and Christ's sacrifice with our works.
God Bless
1 cor 12:13For by one Spirit are ww all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be slaves or free, whether we be catholic or Carismatic; and have been all madeto drink into one Spirit.Lanakila said:Repentence and confession to God are part of the salvation process. They aren't works, but combine with faith. I think that salvation is being overly complicated here for some reason. I will give my experience now:
When I came to God, I turned to Christ believing that he paid the penalty for my sins, and repented of those same sins, while confessing them at the same time. This all took faith that God was real, was listening, and going to forgive. But, its all similtaneous. In other words its not a later work, but happens all at the same time. God the Holy Spirit is drawing someone to Himself at the time as well.
This isn't a complicated thing, and is easily explained in many gospel tracts.
*Mod Hat On Now*But, I need to remind folks that the rules state that only Protestants may debate in this forum. *Mod Hat Off*
Faith comes from all three person of the godheadwestern kentucky said:My question:
How did you come to the conclusion that one must have faith, repent, and confess, but not be baptized? Where in the scriptures is repentance and confession both combined with faith?
people complained about large caps once so I started leaving them in small capsdanceforjoy said:Hi, a (brother) brethren in CHRIST! It is true what you say, and you are good at shouting it. Do you know that faith also comes to us through the gift of the Holy Ghost? For one of His fruit is, see Gal.5:22 and I think somewhere it says that God gives every man a portion of faith and it is up to us to built on it and to use it wisely.
true baptism is done by God 1 cor 12:13Ken said:Western Kentucky, how do you respond to the following passages, that unequivocally state that a person is not saved by any observation of a law or commandment (e.g., "be baptized")??
(Gal 2:16 NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.
(Gal 3:2-5 NIV) I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? {3} Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? {4} Have you suffered so much for nothing--if it really was for nothing? {5} Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
(Gal 3:10-12 NIV) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." {11} Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." {12} The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."
(Rom 3:20 NASB) because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
(Rom 3:27 NASB) Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
(Rom 3:28 NASB) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
(Rom 4:2 NASB) For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God.
(Rom 4:4 NASB) Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due.
(Rom 4:6 NASB) just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works:
(Rom 9:31-32 NASB) but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. {32} Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
(Rom 11:6 NASB) But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Secondly, the doctrine of justification is one which says that a person is justified (considered righteous) by God's declaring them to be so, abd then, as a result of that imputation, of God considering such a person fully saved in God's eyes, the person then desires to be obedient to the commandments, for instance, the command to be baptized, but such things are a response to God after one is saved, a person is not saved by engaging in this or that activity.....
A person is "born-again" or rather "born from above", and this is the result of the Holy Spirit's activity in the heart of a person, and this is a sovereign work of God, (John 3:8 NASB) "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
So one can never put God into a situation which says to Him, "God, I did this or that, I got baptized, I said a sinner's prayer, I gave 10% of my income to the church, etc etc, and so now, you must grant me salvation based on my obedience." God must not do anything, unless He so chooses. Baptism is simply one one more of thos "things" that one does after becoming a Christian, it in no way whatsoever makes a person a "true Christian".
I believe that Charles Spurgeon dealt with the erroneous doctrine you are professing many years ago in the following, which is an excerpt from a sermon based on
(Mark 16:15-16 NASB) And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. {16} "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Spurgeon said:
"I find that the great error which we have to contend with throughout England (and it is growing more and more), is one in direct opposition to my text, well known to you as the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. We will confront this dogma with the assertion, that BAPTISM WITHOUT FAITH SAVES NO ONE. The text says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" but whether a man be baptized or no, it asserts that "he that believeth not shall be d a m n e d:" so that baptism does not save the unbeliever , nay, it does not in any degree exempt him from the common doom of all the ungodly. He may have baptism, or he may not have baptism, but if he believeth not, he shall be in any case most surely d a m n e d. Let him be baptized by immersion or sprinkling, in his infancy, or in his adult age, if he be not led to put his trust in Jesus Christif he remaineth an unbeliever, then this terrible doom is pronounced upon him"He that believeth not shall be d a m n e d."
longsuffering wrong wordA Brethren IN CHRIST said:people complained about large caps once so I started leaving them in small caps
and started to use the enlarger to highlight messages plus easier to read when writing in someone quote..
But if this bothers you I know you can longsuffer like Christ suffers with us 2 peter 3:9
Ken, thank your for your post. I really appreciate it. I am in school right now, and on Thursday I have a 20 page project due, so I will not be able to give you a response until Friday....Ken said:Western Kentucky, how do you respond to the following passages, that unequivocally state that a person is not saved by any observation of a law or commandment (e.g., "be baptized")??
(Gal 2:16 NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.
(Gal 3:2-5 NIV) I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? {3} Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? {4} Have you suffered so much for nothing--if it really was for nothing? {5} Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
(Gal 3:10-12 NIV) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." {11} Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." {12} The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."
(Rom 3:20 NASB) because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
(Rom 3:27 NASB) Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
(Rom 3:28 NASB) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
(Rom 4:2 NASB) For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God.
(Rom 4:4 NASB) Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due.
(Rom 4:6 NASB) just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works:
(Rom 9:31-32 NASB) but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. {32} Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
(Rom 11:6 NASB) But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Secondly, the doctrine of justification is one which says that a person is justified (considered righteous) by God's declaring them to be so, abd then, as a result of that imputation, of God considering such a person fully saved in God's eyes, the person then desires to be obedient to the commandments, for instance, the command to be baptized, but such things are a response to God after one is saved, a person is not saved by engaging in this or that activity.....
A person is "born-again" or rather "born from above", and this is the result of the Holy Spirit's activity in the heart of a person, and this is a sovereign work of God, (John 3:8 NASB) "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
So one can never put God into a situation which says to Him, "God, I did this or that, I got baptized, I said a sinner's prayer, I gave 10% of my income to the church, etc etc, and so now, you must grant me salvation based on my obedience." God must not do anything, unless He so chooses. Baptism is simply one one more of thos "things" that one does after becoming a Christian, it in no way whatsoever makes a person a "true Christian".
I believe that Charles Spurgeon dealt with the erroneous doctrine you are professing many years ago in the following, which is an excerpt from a sermon based on
(Mark 16:15-16 NASB) And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. {16} "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Spurgeon said:
"I find that the great error which we have to contend with throughout England (and it is growing more and more), is one in direct opposition to my text, well known to you as the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. We will confront this dogma with the assertion, that BAPTISM WITHOUT FAITH SAVES NO ONE. The text says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" but whether a man be baptized or no, it asserts that "he that believeth not shall be d a m n e d:" so that baptism does not save the unbeliever , nay, it does not in any degree exempt him from the common doom of all the ungodly. He may have baptism, or he may not have baptism, but if he believeth not, he shall be in any case most surely d a m n e d. Let him be baptized by immersion or sprinkling, in his infancy, or in his adult age, if he be not led to put his trust in Jesus Christif he remaineth an unbeliever, then this terrible doom is pronounced upon him"He that believeth not shall be d a m n e d."
FreeinChrist said:WOW,, that statement is outright blasphemy to God!
I will pray for you.
I believe this thread is leading you to make foolish and blasphemous statements like the one above... and I want nothing of that.
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