Oldest rock in the world 2 days after creation (embedded age)

[truthpls]

These are all your religious "beliefs.

No, verses from Scripture quoting God Himself are neither mine nor religious beliefs.

But the spiritual is something one personally experiences.

God is a spirit. Heaven is spiritual. We are spirits when we go to be with Him. The spiritual is a reality not just something we 'experience'. In the case of creation that was not natural. There was no what we now call 'natural'.

For instance a person can personally experience the Divine with in God's Creation. The thing is, to personally experience God's Hand in Creation is way different than"believing" God said something.

Regardless of experiences or touch feely moments, His word is forever. Heaven and earth shall pass away but His words shall never pass away. He also sends us His spirit which helps us understand His word and leads us. Our personal experiences do not change God or His word or creation.

Or perhaps a person could experience the infinite Creating hand of God within the power of Life that permeates all of existence. That's when it gets spiritual.

So you claim a person already alive could 'experience creation' but that the world and man and universe was not created. OK Sorry if that makes no sense.

 

[dlamberth]

If God's creation is "not at all hidden," then why does science change with the weather?

I just came in from the outdoors. I was hoping to see the full moon. The weather is still there and raining as predicted.

 

[Aaron112]

Shrugs..... maybe because they're disobedient, not taught correctly, flayable men?

then why does science change with the weather?

Is that why science makes mistakes right and left?

Worse is that they cover up the mistakes when money is involved.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

But here's the sixty-four dollar question:

Which came first? God, or the aforementioned effects?

Before I answer... why 64 dollars?

But, no, God. But if it hadn't been for Jesus, then it would still be evidence of Judaism.

 

[AV1611VET]

Before I answer... why 64 dollars?

But, no, God. But if it hadn't been for Jesus, then it would still be evidence of Judaism.

Jesus is the Reason for the Season!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Jesus is the Reason for the Season!

And also the reason why Christianity exists. Otherwise it'd still just be Judaism. It's kind of in the name...

 

[AV1611VET]

And also the reason why Christianity exists. Otherwise it'd still just be Judaism. It's kind of in the name...

As Jeremiah put it ...

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

As Jeremiah put it ...

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:32-33 -
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

It's not saying what you think it's saying, AV.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's not saying what you think it's saying, AV.

Is it saying what Paul says it's saying?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

Verse 31. A new covenant: the Christian dispensation.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Is it saying what Paul says it's saying?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

Verse 31. A new covenant: the Christian dispensation.

Considering that Hebrews is a book of the New Testament and the book of Jeremiah is a book of the Old Testament...

AV, you can quote the Bible so much that I think you forget context. Old Testament - the Jews while the New Testament - Christians.

 

[AV1611VET]

Considering that Hebrews is a book of the New Testament and the book of Jeremiah is a book of the Old Testament...

AV, you can quote the Bible so much that I think you forget context. Old Testament - the Jews while the New Testament - Christians.

My Saviour is a Jewish carpenter.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

My Saviour is a Jewish carpenter.

Yes.

 

[dlamberth]

So you claim a person already alive could 'experience creation' but that the world and man and universe was not created. OK Sorry if that makes no sense.

Created, yes. But in a different way than it's depicted in the Biblical narrative. It has to do with the life force with in the physical world which is spiritually experienced. You've seen me bring this up previously, it has to do with "Infinite Divine Love". That's not something science is able to look at or is even suppose to look at because it something of the inner Heart experience. It's where God becomes a direct reality in ones life. Which is of a different trajectory than "religious belief".

 

[truthpls]

Created, yes. But in a different way than it's depicted in the Biblical narrative.

That says a lot. I find it a red flag when someone asks us to take their word over God's. (even if they try to say Scripture is not God's word)

It has to do with the life force with in the physical world which is spiritually experienced.

What other force in the world gives life, other than God? Both spirits and creatures are alive.

Ps 54:4 But God is my helper. The Lord keeps me alive!

Some dead men in the end get brought to life. It is not by some force in the world that is 'spiritually experienced'.


Revelation 11:11
But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

So life is not internal but external in this case. Just like Adam, God breathed on Adam and he came alive. It was life from God, not some spiritual mind trip that a clump of mud naturally experienced from some unknown mystery 'force in the world'!

In the same way, man did not come from monkeys due to some force in the world that finally kicked in to make the monkey spawn a man.

You've seen me bring this up previously, it has to do with "Infinite Divine Love". That's not something science is able to look at or is even suppose to look at because it something of the inner Heart experience.

You have defined this apparently as something in the world. A force. So does this force live in all animals and bugs? Does this force have a name? There are many spirits in this world. Not all are life giving. Not all are good. The good one has a name.

It's where God becomes a direct reality in ones life.

People may get possessed and think 'god' has become real in their life. People may go on a drug trip and think god reveals himself to them. Having some feeling or spirit that becomes real in someone's life does not mean much. Nor is it related to God or creation. Only when people sincerely ask Jesus to come into their lives does He enter. Jesus is not some 'force in the world' lurking around that randomly becomes a reality for one. He is invited in. There is no other name or spirit that brings life. Jesus created all things, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him is life!

wow

Which is of a different trajectory than "religious belief".

What you describe is a different trajectory all right! Not the bible. Not Jesus. Not the creator.

 

[BCP1928]

That says a lot. I find it a red flag when someone asks us to take their word over God's. (even if they try to say Scripture is not God's word)

Who said that? Science can't say it because the divine inspiration of scripture is an unfalsifiable proposition. Nothing that science has discovered or potentially ever could discover can disprove it.

 

[truthpls]

Who said that?

The person to whom I replied. He said

"Created, yes. But in a different way than it's depicted in the Biblical narrative. "

That is a direct contradiction to God and Scripture.

Science can't say it because the divine inspiration of scripture is an unfalsifiable proposition.

Great, add that to the list of what science can't say.

Nothing that science has discovered or potentially ever could discover can disprove it.

Great, so, again, science is out of the loop in creation and God.

 

[BCP1928]

The person to whom I replied. He said

"Created, yes. But in a different way than it's depicted in the Biblical narrative. "

That is a direct contradiction to God and Scripture.

Not a contradiction to God or Scripture--only a contradiction to how you read Scripture. But you don't own Scripture and are in no position to dictate to other Christians whate they believe about it.

Great, add that to the list of what science can't say.

Great, so, again, science is out of the loop in creation and God.

Right. The most science can hope to find out is what was happening in the material world during creation.

 

[truthpls]

Not a contradiction to God or Scripture--only a contradiction to how you read Scripture.

The 'biblical narrative' mentioned did not mention that.

But you don't own Scripture and are in no position to dictate to other Christians whate they believe about it.

Galatians 1:8
Let God's curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.

That sounds like we should stick to what we were told. Part of that is telling us He created the world. Science opposes this and exalts it's claims above what any interpretation of much of the bible says!

John 1:10 -- He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him

Explain how this 'really' means that He did NOT create the world? Explain how observing that it says He did create the world is some position John was dictating?

Right. The most science can hope to find out is what was happening in the material world during creation.

False. If creation was not natural, as it wasn't, then the natural only crowd could never ever come to any knowledge about how God created.

 

[dlamberth]

That says a lot. I find it a red flag when someone asks us to take their word over God's. (even if they try to say Scripture is not God's word)

If your talking about me, I was only opening the spiritual as experienced which is different that "belief". Your mode of operation is to claim spiritual authority. But from where I come from what your really talking about are your "religious beliefs". That's especially true when it comes to your Creation narrative. This World, in fact all of the Cosmos is showing us a very different Creation story than what your religious beliefs are telling us. Either way, it's not the realm of science to bring religious beliefs or even the spiritual into it's study of the physical world.

What you describe is a different trajectory all right! Not the bible. Not Jesus. Not the creator.

In my spiritual experience, the Heart of Christ IS "Infinite Divine Love/Activated". Which, spiritually runs completely through and within ALL of this physical world. "Infinite Divine Love/Activated" is the essence behind the miracles that Jesus performed. So it IS Christ whom I've been talking about. I'm of understanding that's a different Jesus than you know. And I get that.

 

[dlamberth]

False. If creation was not natural, as it wasn't, then the natural only crowd could never ever come to any knowledge about how God created.

Wrong. Science has opened a window into how God Creates. It's just that your rejecting that window even though it's Gods Creation that the window is opened to.