Oldest rock in the world 2 days after creation (embedded age)

[BCP1928]

No, that would make Adam and Eve a lie.

No, it would make it what it is--an etiological folk narrative.

The natural only based package deal leads to unending doubt. In creation, in the reality of God, the truthfulness of God, in the flood, the garden, in the fall, etc.

Only for fundamentalist Protestants, who are chained to the false doctrine of Sola Scriptora.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

If the rock that was created the day before would look old to modern science if inspected back in that time, who is deceived? Adam? No. He would not entertain the notion that the rock on the ground was billions of years old or that it was not created! Why insult God by calling Him the deceiver? The only ones tricked are the deceived.
They called Jesus a deceiver as well.
Mat 27:
62 .. the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again

Here is a direct quote from God

Job 38:4 -- "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.

Do you think He was lying and deceiving? Do you think (as the natural only minded think) that this world really originated in some mystery cosmic crash derby or particle cloud debris from a big bang or whatever?

Those who say such things (that God is a deceiver if His word is true) insult a lot more than Genesis

Psalms 33:6 -- By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth

Quote the Bible all you want. At the end of the day, analysis of God's creation shows the earth to be billions of years old, and there is nothing you can say apart from a faulty interpretation of the Bible to try and justify your belief that God created the world 6000 years ago. A claim that you nor anyone else can back up except with a chronology of genealogy created in the 15-1600s.

Your claims make God to be deceptive and a deceiver. I do not believe nor would I even want to believe that God would lie to anyone about His creation, but apparently you do.

 

[truthpls]

No, it would make it what it is--an etiological folk narrative.

You would need to go through the bible and turn much of it into some 'folk narrative' as well, such as the verses in my last post.

Psalms 33:6 -- By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth

Science has a different creation story for the sea as well. Scripture is God inspired and God given and written to all folks, especially those who will believe.

Only for fundamentalist Protestants, who are chained to the false doctrine of Sola Scriptora.

Proverbs 3:19 -- The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens
Creation has nothing to do with 'Protestants' or some doctrine of man.

 

[BCP1928]

You would need to go through the bible and turn much of it into some 'folk narrative' as well, such as the verses in my last post.

Psalms 33:6 -- By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth

Science has a different creation story for the sea as well. Scripture is God inspired and God given and written to all folks, especially those who will believe.

Proverbs 3:19 -- The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens

Of course. All Christians believe that proverb. Nothing to do with your particular hermenuetic, and naturalistic science does not dispute it;

Job 38:4 -- "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.


Psalms 33:6 -- By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth

How about my favorite, Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

None of those passages are contradicted by naturalistic science. Your argument is a fake,

 

[truthpls]

Quote the Bible all you want. At the end of the day, analysis of God's creation shows the earth to be billions of years old, and there is nothing you can say apart from a faulty interpretation of the Bible to try and justify your belief that God created the world 6000 years ago.

So the whole bible can go to the trash bin to maintain the natural only interpretations of worldly wise men in your opinion. OK

A claim that you nor anyone else can back up except with a chronology of genealogy created in the 15-1600s.

God expects belief not back up abilities. We believe that He was seen of many after rising from the dead. That does not mean we have to dig up those witnesses and make them alive again and parade them to a police line up of they never really existed. We do not have to pull Jesus out of the heavens and lay Him on a slab for science to inspect His eternal risen body to believe.

People believed long before the 1500s.

Here is one for you

Isaiah 44:24 -- Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

Your claims make God to be deceptive and a deceiver.

Once again here is the Almighty speaking and telling us where the universe really came from and how it really works.

Isaiah 48:13 -- Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.

How dare anyone call Him a deceiver while worshipping the natural only graven alternate creation images of science

I do not believe nor would I even want to believe that God would lie to anyone about His creation, but apparently you do.

Here is Him doing what you call lying again

Jeremiah 10:12 -- He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So the whole bible can go to the trash bin to maintain the natural only interpretations of worldly wise men in your opinion. OK

God expects belief not back up abilities. We believe that He was seen of many after rising from the dead. That does not mean we have to dig up those witnesses and make them alive again and parade them to a police line up of they never really existed. We do not have to pull Jesus out of the heavens and lay Him on a slab for science to inspect His eternal risen body to believe.

People believed long before the 1500s.

Here is one for you

Isaiah 44:24 -- Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;



Once again here is the Almighty speaking and telling us where the universe really came from and how it really works.

Isaiah 48:13 -- Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.

How dare anyone call Him a deceiver while worshipping the natural only graven alternate creation images of science

Here is Him doing what you call lying again

Jeremiah 10:12 -- He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion

You enjoy saying things that I have not said. I've asked you to stop since it's dishonest.

Notice how in all of the verses you quote, not a single one says anything about the age of the world? So why is it impossible for God to have made the world 4 billion years ago as shown by science and scientists studying His creation?

 

[truthpls]

Of course. All Christians believe that proverb. Nothing to do with your particular hermenuetic, and naturalistic science does not dispute it;

Science actually does not say He did what He said. Quite the opposite actually.

How about my favorite, Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

None of those passages are contradicted by naturalistic science. Your argument is a fake,

Jeremiah 32:17 -- 'Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and outstretched arm.

Science does not tell us that is where the world came from. Let's be honest.

 

[BCP1928]

So the whole bible can go to the trash bin to maintain the natural only interpretations of worldly wise men in your opinion. OK

God expects belief not back up abilities. We believe that He was seen of many after rising from the dead. That does not mean we have to dig up those witnesses and make them alive again and parade them to a police line up of they never really existed. We do not have to pull Jesus out of the heavens and lay Him on a slab for science to inspect His eternal risen body to believe.

And we don't have to agree with your interpretation of scripture to believe, either.

People believed long before the 1500s.

Here is one for you

Isaiah 44:24 -- Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;



Once again here is the Almighty speaking and telling us where the universe really came from and how it really works.

Isaiah 48:13 -- Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.

How dare anyone call Him a deceiver while worshipping the natural only graven alternate creation images of science

Here is Him doing what you call lying again

Jeremiah 10:12 -- He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion

More fake arguments. It's clear that what should go into the trash bin is your interpretation of scripture. You can't even argue for it honestly.

 

[BCP1928]

Science actually does not say He did what He said. Quite the opposite actually.

Jeremiah 32:17 -- 'Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and outstretched arm.

Science does not tell us that is where the world came from. Let's be honest.

No, it just fills in the details that Jeremiah didn't give us.

 

[truthpls]

You enjoy saying things that I have not said. I've asked you to stop since it's dishonest.

You made it clear that in neither Genesis or the rest of the bible will you believe things about creation that are contrary to what science says. Be honest

Notice how in all of the verses you quote, not a single one says anything about the age of the world?

He made man when He made the rest actually. When man started to exist is NOT when naturalonlydunnit science says the universe started!

Jeremiah 27:5 -- 'I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are on the ground, by My great power and by My outstretched arm

Nehemiah 9:6 -- You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all

So why is it impossible for God to have made the world 4 billion years ago as shown by science and scientists studying His creation?

Exodus 20:11 -- For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them

There can be no billions of years it was all done the same six days.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You made it clear that in neither Genesis or the rest of the bible will you believe things about creation that are contrary to what science says. Be honest

Quote me then.

He made man when He made the rest actually. When man started to exist is NOT when naturalonlydunnit science says the universe started!

Jeremiah 27:5 -- 'I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are on the ground, by My great power and by My outstretched arm

Nehemiah 9:6 -- You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all

And nowhere in those verses about the age of the earth.

Exodus 20:11 -- For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them

There can be no billions of years it was all done the same six days.

You and AV have a very bad habit of quoting Bible verses out of context:

Exodus 20: 8 - 12
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

There can be a six day creation.... if the verse wasn't taken as literal history, which studying God's creation clearly shows it wasn't.

Why do you insult God by denigrating His creation so blithely?

 

[truthpls]

And we don't have to agree with your interpretation of scripture to believe, either.

Genesis 5:2 -- He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created

That is where mankind came from. It is not some interpretation.

It is not some interpretation that God made the world with a word! Not some big bang and billions of years.

Psalms 33:8 -- Let all the earth fear the LORD; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.


Psalms 33:9 -- For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast

That fast. He spoke and it was so. Done. Existing.

More fake arguments. It's clear that what should go into the trash bin is your interpretation of scripture. You can't even argue for it honestly.

Having posted something like 30 verses from the bible in different places confirming His creation, it is transparently contrary to call that dishonest.


Psalms 90:2 -- Before the mountains were brought forth, Or ever You had formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

 

[truthpls]

Quote me then.

"Quote the Bible all you want. At the end of the day, analysis of God's creation shows the earth to be billions of years old.."

So you diss all the bible and hold up the natural only based dates of man.

Psalms 96:5 -- For all the gods of the peoples are idols, But the LORD made the heavens

To set up a natural only based image or concept of creation contrary to Scripture is to worship an idol.

And nowhere in those verses about the age of the earth.

Exodus 20:11 -- For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them

The sea and the earth and mankind are the same age God says

You and AV have a very bad habit of quoting Bible verses out of context:

Exodus 20: 8 - 12
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

There can be a six day creation.... if the verse wasn't taken as literal history, which studying God's creation clearly shows it wasn't.

He did it or not. He says He did. We should not call Him a liar.

Deuteronomy 4:32 -- "For ask now concerning the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether any great thing like this has happened, or anything like it has been heard.



Job 40:15
I created both you and the hippopotamus. It eats only grass like an ox..

Science says we came from other animals, God says He made us both!

 

[BCP1928]

Genesis 5:2 -- He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created

That is where mankind came from. It is not some interpretation.

Then you have reading skills problems, Nothing in that passage is inconsistent with the theory of evolution.

It is not some interpretation that God made the world with a word! Not some big bang and billions of years.

Why not? The two propositions are not inconsistant

Psalms 33:8 -- Let all the earth fear the LORD; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.


Psalms 33:9 -- For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast

That fast. He spoke and it was so. Done. Existing.



Having posted something like 30 verses from the bible in different places confirming His creation, it is transparently contrary to call that dishonest.


Psalms 90:2 -- Before the mountains were brought forth, Or ever You had formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

Seriously, did you ever have reading difficulties as a child? Those are lines of POETRY you are quoting.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

"Quote the Bible all you want. At the end of the day, analysis of God's creation shows the earth to be billions of years old.."

So you diss all the bible and hold up the natural only based dates of man.

Psalms 96:5 -- For all the gods of the peoples are idols, But the LORD made the heavens

To set up a natural only based image or concept of creation contrary to Scripture is to worship an idol.

So I didn't say what you claimed I said. At least you admit that you're making up things I'm saying.

Exodus 20:11 -- For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them

The sea and the earth and mankind are the same age God says

And again, nothing about the age of the Earth...

He did it or not. He says He did. We should not call Him a liar.

Deuteronomy 4:32 -- "For ask now concerning the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether any great thing like this has happened, or anything like it has been heard.



Job 40:15
I created both you and the hippopotamus. It eats only grass like an ox..

Science says we came from other animals, God says He made us both!

And yet the evidence from God's own creation shows something different.

 

[BCP1928]

"Quote the Bible all you want. At the end of the day, analysis of God's creation shows the earth to be billions of years old.."

So you diss all the bible and hold up the natural only based dates of man.

You don't understand the Bible well enough to know whether it's being "dissed" or not. All you seem to be able to do is read it with the comprehension of a fourth grader reading a comic book. It is the inspired word of God after all, you really should try to read it more perceptively.

 

[dlamberth]

So in accepting that God is a spirit and that He created the world as Scripture says, that registers to you as 'not things of the spirit'. Let me get this straight then, are you suggesting that using the physical and natural ONLY gives us things of the spirit?

I'd suggest that a persons inner experience of the Divine with in the physical is what gives us things of the spirit. Accepting beliefs that are religious in nature is very different critter. They may or may not point towards the spiritual, but about that's it.

 

[AV1611VET]

So what about Christian scientists who are Christians but they also accept the evidence from His creation that say He created the world 4.5 billion years ago?

We call them Old Earth Creationists.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

We call them Old Earth Creationists.

Indeed you do.

 

[AV1611VET]

How exactly can we study the non-physical? Please, give us the rundown on how it can be done.

In God's case, cause-and-effect might help:

1. the Bible
2. time divided into BC & AD
3. organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army
4. hospitals built by Christian organizations
5. Christian artwork, edifices, statuary, and literature
6. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins
7. UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance
8. the Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public
9. Christmas & Easter
10. symbols on bumper stickers and flags
11. public debates in the name of Christianity
12. crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ
13. two major nations founded on His existence
14. martyrs
15. Christians & Jews