Old Testament Applicability

[miamited]

How does one determine what parts of the Old Testament are directly applicable to life now? For example, does Leviticus 15 still hold true? If not, how does one explain Matthew 5:17-20? Thanks for your serious consideration of these questions.

Hi myles,

I believe that it is obvious that God has established a new covenant that is not like the old covenant that He established with Israel.

First, when I become aware of my sin, I do not have to slay an animal and sprinkle its blood on the alter of God. We don't find a single incident that such a practice was ever held among the new covenant believers, yet it was a very, very important part of forgiveness for sin for Israel. Most of the books of the law spend a good deal of time telling Israel all of the circumstances under which an animal needed to be used to seek God's forgiveness.

When Jesus was born it is clearly explained to us that Mary and Joseph took two doves before the priest to redeem the babies life. This was a clear teaching and practice among Israel that on the 8th day of a newborn's life, a sacrifice had to be made to redeem that child before God.

Secondly, we have at least two times that the Scriptures make it clear that all animals can be used for food for man. However, when we get to Israel we find that there are several restrictions on animal food. One would naturally ask, "Why this apparent contradiction?" God clearly says to Noah, who we certainly can understand in that day was the most godly man upon the earth because of God's mercy in saving him and his family from the worldwide destruction of all life, "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it."

Then we find a few centuries later that God is placing some rather severe restrictions on what and how the children of Israel could eat meat. Hmmm? Is our God a god of contradiction? Then on the other side of Israel, when Jesus was with us, he says, "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?" Not much ambiguity there. There is nothing that can enter a man's body from the outside that makes him unclean. Nothing! So, unless you're growing pigs in your abdomen I believe it's quite clear that eating pork, or shellfish will not make you unclean.

So, what could be the answer to such an obvious contradiction?

The 'law' given to Israel said that an adulterer was to be stoned by the whole community. Yet, Jesus, when confronted with just such a lawbreaker didn't follow the law. Does that make him a lawbreaker, too?

God bless you.
IN Christ, Ted

 

[Skala]

How does one determine what parts of the Old Testament are directly applicable to life now? For example, does Leviticus 15 still hold true? If not, how does one explain Matthew 5:17-20? Thanks for your serious consideration of these questions.

The grammatical historical method of hermeneutics tells us that all passages have a principle that we can learn, and we can apply that principle to our lives in a practical way, even if the passage is not aimed at us directly.

For example, the OT law says that if a man's ox kills another man, then that man should also be killed.

These laws were aimed at a specific people at a specific place and time who were in a specific situation. So this law does not necessary carry over to our situation today. However, the principle still does. For example: a person should take responsibility if his belongings cause harm to another person.

You can watch an excellent teaching DVD on this issue called "Herman Who?". It teaches you how to interpret and read the Bible correctly. Including those strange OT laws.

Here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBhFca0dw5U

 

[OzSpen]

For me, Oz, eating bacon is a sin. When I prayed about the kosher rules, I felt like G-d was telling me it still applied. My opinion is that when G-d created those animals, He had other purposes for them. It's like paper. I can eat it but it's not food. To me, bacon (or any other unclean animal) is the same way. I can eat it but it's not food. Does that make it clearer?

jf,

Yes, it does make it clear from your perspective. However, I cannot agree with it as it contradicts the words of Jesus:

And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)[Mark 7:18-19 ESV]

See also Acts 10:15; 11:9.

In addition, Jesus fulfilled the Law (Matt. 5:17-19) so that I don't have keep the theocratic ceremonial and food laws of the OT. Kosher food was for theocratic Israel and not for Christianity.

However, what you do in this regard is your business, but I can't agree that it is warranted, based on the content of NT Scripture:

This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant (Heb. 7:22).

In Christ, Oz

 

[twin1954]

I am shocked (well not so much having been here a while) that no one has actually gotten the purpoose of the OT. The Old Testament is a revelation of the person and work of Christ as much as the New Testament is. From Gen. 3:15 and 21 we see God preaching the Gospel to Adam and Eve. All throughout the Old Testament we see Christ in type and picture. As far as the law Paul clearly tells us that the purpose of the law is to drive us to Christ. Gal. 3:24 Christ is the message, theme, object, purpose and fulfilment of the whole of the Old Trestament. The Old Testament isn't a history book it is a Him Book. Christ is the key that unlocks the mystery of the Old Testament Scriptures. Find Christ in the Old Testament and you have found the message of the Old Testament.

 

[miamited]

Hi twin,

Yea, I think most of us get that. The question is, and it comes up often on these threads, under the old covenant God conferred righteousness to His people by their keeping a set of laws that He handed down to them through Moses.

What I find puzzling is that no one seems to understand that as we read through the law handed down to Moses there is no promise of eternal salvation. The old covenant was a covenant between God, the creator of all things, and a specific group of people referred to as the 'children of Abraham', the Jews. That covenant was a promise that if the 'children of Abraham' would be obedient in honoring and serving Him in the way that He proscribed through the law that He would protect them and provide for them in this life on this earth.

Jesus brings to us a new covenant. The covenant that we receive through our faith in the shed blood of Christ, is a covenant of eternal life. The old covenant is of no value to anyone, and so far as receiving God's promise of eternal life, was never of any such value to the Jews. Both Jew and Gentile, to receive the promise of eternal life and to be saved from the wrath of God on that day of His judgment, will have had to have had faith in the Messiah, the Redeemer, the Son of God.

No one, since the day of God's stooping to the earth and forming by His hand the man, Adam, and breathing into him the breath of life - to any man standing upon the earth when Jesus returns as Lord and King to gather his children as a mother hen gathers her chicks, will receive God's salvation unless their names are written in the Son's Book of Life. No one! This is why Jesus says to his disciples, "Not all who say to me, 'Lord, Lord', will be saved. Only those who he knows; who have a real relationship of love with him; whose names will then be written in His Book of Life, will be saved.

The old covenant is dead. It was of no value then and is of no value now to anyone who desires to receive the promise of God's eternal life with Him. Where we will be His people and He will be our God. All the people standing before God when He makes that statement will have trusted, known the Son of God. Not just known about him, but known him.

And for those who think that by keeping the law they are going to gain that promise, like refusing to eat pork and not shaving their hair or sacrificing a lamb upon some alter when they sin; I hope to make clear that if, in keeping the law, you hope to gain salvation you'd better be better than the Pharisees, because none of them kept it good enough. Do not worry about what you eat or drink or what you can do of your own to atone for sin. Know Jesus! Spend time with Jesus! Develop your very closest friendship and relationship with Jesus! For it is the Son of God in whom God has entrusted the decision of who is righteous and deserving of His mercy on that day of His judgment. Love Jesus!!!!

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Blooper]

Well don't cut any womens hands off for interfering in a fight. Really just don't do anything here in America that will get you arrested for assault and battery. Everything else is either mandatory (ten commandments and basic obvious reqirments for being a christian like love god and don't Nevada wizard) or great advice (like don't eat rare meat or get tattoos).

 

[OzSpen]

I am shocked (well not so much having been here a while) that no one has actually gotten the purpoose of the OT. The Old Testament is a revelation of the person and work of Christ as much as the New Testament is. From Gen. 3:15 and 21 we see God preaching the Gospel to Adam and Eve. All throughout the Old Testament we see Christ in type and picture. As far as the law Paul clearly tells us that the purpose of the law is to drive us to Christ. Gal. 3:24 Christ is the message, theme, object, purpose and fulfilment of the whole of the Old Trestament. The Old Testament isn't a history book it is a Him Book. Christ is the key that unlocks the mystery of the Old Testament Scriptures. Find Christ in the Old Testament and you have found the message of the Old Testament.

Yes, there are a few examples of when Christ is prefigured or prophesied in the OT. However, I think that you have skewed this big time! The OT is the Book of the Law and Prophets for theocratic Israel - the Old Covenant.

Most of the OT does not apply to Christian believers under the New Covenant because the Old Covenant was addressed to Israel - the Ten Commandments are but one example. However, the whole of the OT is addressed primarily to Israel.

Why can't you see this?

Oz

 

[twin1954]

Yes, there are a few examples of when Christ is prefigured or prophesied in the OT. However, I think that you have skewed this big time! The OT is the Book of the Law and Prophets for theocratic Israel - the Old Covenant.

Most of the OT does not apply to Christian believers under the New Covenant because the Old Covenant was addressed to Israel - the Ten Commandments are but one example. However, the whole of the OT is addressed primarily to Israel.

Why can't you see this?

Oz

I can see that you have a very Dispensational view of the Old Testament. And You say I have skewed an understanding of the Old Testament.You rightly make the claim that it was written to Israel but Israel is all the elect of God in all ages not just a physical ethnic group that lives in Palestine. Read Rom. 2:28-29. To have such a limited, strict and unbending literal view of the Scriptures is to have the same error that the Jews of Christ's time here had. They had such a literal view that they missed Christ who was testified of in all of the Old Testament.

You say a few instances? Then how was it that the Lord Jesus on the road to Emmaus opened all of the Scriptures and showed that they testified of Him. Luke 24:27 He wasn't using the New Testament you know.

And of course you must ignore the fact that Christ clearly told the Jews to search the Scriptures for in them they thought that they had eternal life but they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 He wasn't talking about the New Testament.

I am not the blind one here.

 

[Johnnz]

Ho Ozpen,

Your post seems to overlook these verses:
Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." NIV

At Pentecost the new age has begun and God has one family, Jew and Gentile.

John
NZ

 

[OzSpen]

I can see that you have a very Dispensational view of the Old Testament. And You say I have skewed an understanding of the Old Testament.You rightly make the claim that it was written to Israel but Israel is all the elect of God in all ages not just a physical ethnic group that lives in Palestine. Read Rom. 2:28-29. To have such a limited, strict and unbending literal view of the Scriptures is to have the same error that the Jews of Christ's time here had. They had such a literal view that they missed Christ who was testified of in all of the Old Testament.

You say a few instances? Then how was it that the Lord Jesus on the road to Emmaus opened all of the Scriptures and showed that they testified of Him. Luke 24:27 He wasn't using the New Testament you know.

And of course you must ignore the fact that Christ clearly told the Jews to search the Scriptures for in them they thought that they had eternal life but they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 He wasn't talking about the New Testament.

I am not the blind one here.

You have got it wrong BIG TIME. I am NOT a dispensationalist in my beliefs about the New Covenant. Jesus fulfilled the OT so I do not have to obey all of those theocratic laws for Israel.

I have an exegetical view of Scripture. I exegete the text and oppose eisegesis.

Oz

 

[corymartin2012]

The Old Testament show the nature and set apartness (holiness) of the Lord. We can use it to show just how Holy the Lord is an apply the underlying concepts to our daily lives. We see that there are penalties for eating "unclean things" during that time. We can show that the reason was because "...God is a holy, clean God who does not partake of unclean things...we should not allow ourselves to partake in things of sinful nature or evil today..". So on and so forth.

 

[OzSpen]

Ho Ozpen,

Your post seems to overlook these verses:
Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." NIV

At Pentecost the new age has begun and God has one family, Jew and Gentile.

John
NZ

I agree with all that you wrote here, John. But there is an added biblical emphasis. This one family of both Jew and Gentile in Christ lives under the requirements of the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was for theocratic Israel.

See what I have written in the thread, 'Old Testament applicability'.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

The Old Testament show the nature and set apartness (holiness) of the Lord. We can use it to show just how Holy the Lord is an apply the underlying concepts to our daily lives. We see that there are penalties for eating "unclean things" during that time. We can show that the reason was because "...God is a holy, clean God who does not partake of unclean things...we should not allow ourselves to partake in things of sinful nature or evil today..". So on and so forth.

Cory,

But this is what Jesus said:

“Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean), Mark 7:18-19 NIV

How does that fit with what you wrote?

Oz

 

[Johnnz]

This one family of both Jew and Gentile in Christ lives under the requirements of the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was for theocratic Israel.Oz

I totally agree with that.

John
NZ

 

[tzadik]

Cory,

But this is what Jesus said:

How does that fit with what you wrote?

Oz

Unfortunately your NIV version is not staying true to the text.
If you look at the Greek or Hebrew, there is absolutely NO mention of the added text "in saying this Jesus made all foods clean".

The context of both Mark 7 and Matthew 15 is the eating with unclean hands.

Absolutely NOTHING to do with clean and unclean foods of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

 

[tzadik]

I agree with all that you wrote here, John. But there is an added biblical emphasis. This one family of both Jew and Gentile in Christ lives under the requirements of the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was for theocratic Israel.

Oz

What were the requirements of the "Old Covenant"?

What are the 'new' requirements of the "New Covenant"?

 

[Johnnz]

The New covenant requires loving God, and loving our neighbours as ourselves by living out the life of the Spirit.

John
NZ

 

[ChrisHolland619]

The New covenant requires loving God, and loving our neighbours as ourselves by living out the life of the Spirit.

John
NZ

Amen to that. We are under the law of faith and love, not the law of the knowledge of sin and death.

 

[tzadik]

The New covenant requires loving God, and loving our neighbours as ourselves by living out the life of the Spirit.
John
NZ

Interesting…so the New covenant requires us to obey two commandments from the Law of God?

Where exactly in the New Covenant texts of either Jeremiah 31 or Hebrews 8 do you get this assertion?

What were the requirements of the Old Covenant?

 

[tzadik]

Amen to that. We are under the law of faith and love, not the law of the knowledge of sin and death.

What you are saying then, is that all the believers from Adam through the thief on the cross were under the law of the knowledge of sin and death and not the law of faith and love?

Where is the reference that tells you that you are now “under the law of faith and love”?