Old Earth Geology Part 1 and Part 2

[OldWiseGuy]

This blog post nicely explains it: Can Young-Earth Creationists Find Oil?



It's not about replacing beliefs; it's about replacing applications (e.g. stuff that works).

That creationists still haven't figured this is out is partially why creationism is such a failure. Creationists still have this huge blind spot when it comes to the real world.

Not all creation believers are YEC's.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

We're not just talking about what we know. We're talking about what works (re: real world application).

You can keep denying this all you want, but it doesn't change these facts.



Which speaks to the problem creationists have with so many contradictory ideas. You have no base methods for distinguishing what is correct or not nor even a consistent philosophy to support those ideas.



I agree, the mother goose description is certainly apt with what you are trying to claim here. There needs be no counter-argument for such claims since there is no support for such argument in the first place.



Oh, I don't believe the Bible is true at all (insofar as what it describes about creation). It's just one of thousands of different world religious beliefs. In fact, the very idea that this one particular belief at this one particular point in time happens to be The Truth(TM) in lieu of every other religious belief in history is just absurd. It would be the most ridiculous of coincidences if that turned out to be the case.

As it stands, I have no more reason to think the Bible is true than any other set of religious beliefs on the planet. Consequently I believe that if there really were some omnipotent creator of our universe that they aren't likely represented by any religions on Earth. After all, if 99.9% of the them are wrong, it's not much further to accept that they are 100% wrong.

And the claims for validity of one religious belief over another seem mostly dependent on cultural bias. If you were born in a Christian country, you're more likely to be a Christian. Conversely, if you were born into a Muslim country, you're more likely to be Muslim. And so on.



Which is done in the context of understanding how the physics of radioactive decay works. Now if you reject basic understanding of physics and our universe (as it appears you do), then you can make up whatever you want to believe.



You can keep decrying science all you want, but the proof is in the pudding. Creationism has yielded zero practical applications (besides ministry donations, tourism and merchandising) and certainly nothing to replace what science has done.

The creation provides everything that science studies. Science is the study of the creation.

 

[pitabread]

The creation provides everything that science studies. Science is the study of the creation.

Okay. And?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Okay. And?

That says it all.

 

[pitabread]

That says it all.

It doesn't in the context of the post you were replying to. It's just a non sequitur.

So again, what is your point?

 

[pitabread]

Not all creation believers are YEC's.

So? What does this have to do with the post you are replying to?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It doesn't in the context of the post you were replying to. It's just a non sequitur.

So again, what is your point?

While science dabbles in some far out theories they mostly study what has been created; the creation. What more can be said?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So? What does this have to do with the post you are replying to?

Several posts have conflated the terms YEC and creationists. One has a specific meaning, the other not so much.

 

[Speedwell]

Several posts have conflated the terms YEC and creationists. One has a specific meaning, the other not so much.

As a matter of long established custom in forums like this one, "creationist" generally refers to a YEC or"biblical" creationist. Of course all theists are creationists in the sense that they believe their god to be the author of our being, but generally only YECs take issue with any of the conclusions of science about the age of the universe, the origin of species, etc. It's creation v. evolution and since one side is all creationists and the other side is creationists and atheists together, it has become common practice to only call the first group creationists.

 

[pitabread]

Several posts have conflated the terms YEC and creationists. One has a specific meaning, the other not so much.

Okay. So?

I'm not really sure where you are going with any of these replies, since they have absolutely nothing to do with the context of the original discussions you were replying to.

 

[pitabread]

While science dabbles in some far out theories they mostly study what has been created; the creation. What more can be said?

The original context of the discussion was about applications of science and the fact that creationism doesn't have any similar applications.

Do you have anything relevant to say about that?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Okay. So?

I'm not really sure where you are going with any of these replies, since they have absolutely nothing to do with the context of the original discussions you were replying to.

The bible suggests a pattern of ruin/restoration, as seen in Genesis One. The geologic record confirms many such episodes over a long period of time, thus Old Age Creationism can be included in the conversation. Unless you want to limit it to YEC vs the geologic record. I myself prefer to joust at straw men.

 

[pitabread]

The bible suggests a pattern of ruin/restoration, as seen in Genesis One. The geologic record confirms many such episodes over a long period of time, thus Old Age Creationism can be included in the conversation.

And what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise, I'm just going to stop replying because this clearly going nowhere.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

If you have a point, please make it. Otherwise, I'm just going to stop replying because this clearly going nowhere.

My point is that there is no real argument between the bible and geologic science, regardless of the position of the YEC's. The truth is that arguing with YEC's has gone as far as it can go.

 

[Lazarus Long]

While science dabbles in some far out theories they mostly study what has been created; the creation. What more can be said?

Since there is no evidence that anything was created it is extremely doubtful that science is studying the non existent.

 

[pitabread]

My point is that there is no real argument between the bible and geologic science, regardless of the position of the YEC's. The truth is that arguing with YEC's has gone as far as it can go.

Sounds to me like this is a conversation you should be having with your YEC brethren then.

 

[Ophiolite]

Since there is no evidence that anything was created it is extremely doubtful that science is studying the non existent.

I shall differ with you here. In my experience in geology the enthusiasm for studying the world, whether you call it creation or "creation", was indistinguishable between Christians and atheists. To put it another way, your point might be accurate, but it has - in my view - no relevance.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sounds to me like this is a conversation you should be having with your YEC brethren then.

That and other differences are always being discussed in the church.

 

[Job 33:6]

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13

“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

He has described a circle [earths shape] on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10‭-‬11

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, or seen the armory of the hail,
Job 38:22
God stores his weapons and mana in storehouses to help the isrealites in battle, and to give gifts to His people.

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13

Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4

The tree that you saw, which grew great and strong, so that its top reached to heaven and was visible to the end of the whole earth,
Daniel 4:20

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.
Psalms 29:10

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses.
Psalms 135:7

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1

and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4

It is he who sits above the *circle* of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was why removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
Revelation 4:1

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4‭-‬6

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8

 

[AV1611VET]

Job, this video might be from the book of Re'shiyth, but it most certainly isn't from the book of Genesis.