Old Earth Creationism

[Job 33:6]

How do you account for the fact that Adam was created on the sixth day? Are you saying that Adam lived for millions of years during the sixth day? If you are saying that the first five days took millions of years each, then Adam must have lived for millions of years during the sixth day of creation. Or, the sixth day, just like the previous five were just 24 hours. Otherwise how could five days be millions of years each, and the sixth 24 hours? Seems illogical to me seeing that Adam lived just over 900 years after the Fall.

Genesis doesn't say that Adam was created on the 6th day. Adam is never mentioned in Genesis chapter 1.

So many people assume Sunday school teachings rather than actually reading the text and accepting it as it is written.

 

[Jipsah]

Your bounding a 24 hour day that isn't the same as a day with the Lord.

In English?

He isn't bound to anything in that verse. If a day is like a thousand years or vice-versa than certainly a minute is like a million years.

That was the whole point of the thing, yeah.

So your saying each day was a thousand years as well?

No. I was saying, as was St. Peter, that God is not bound by time as we are, therefore us saying "it took Him 24 hours of Bulova watch time is ridiculous. Coulda been 10 minutes, could been 163 zillion years. It's not something we can grasp.

 

[BeyondET]

In English?

That was the whole point of the thing, yeah.

No. I was saying, as was St. Peter, that God is not bound by time as we are, therefore us saying "it took Him 24 hours of Bulova watch time is ridiculous. Coulda been 10 minutes, could been 163 zillion years. It's not something we can grasp.

That's a reason why I believe evening and morning is referring to an unknown time frame. If people long ago had a Buliva they certainly could tell the time at dusk and dawn. Without a nice mechanical time piece as such.

No doubt to us the 36 minutes each day that can only be calculated by a mech clock means nothing to modern people. To those long ago it was a big deal couldn't keep time when there's light in the evening and morning but the sun can't cast a shadow and it's to bright to see stars to count . It's around 18 minutes each part of a day and really they were oblivious of seconds and minutes only used 12 hours and a series of watches which involved star counting as they rise.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

In English?

That was the whole point of the thing, yeah.

No. I was saying, as was St. Peter, that God is not bound by time as we are, therefore us saying "it took Him 24 hours of Bulova watch time is ridiculous. Coulda been 10 minutes, could been 163 zillion years. It's not something we can grasp.

The reference in Peter's epistle was not about the Creation week. It was an answer to the delay in the second coming of Christ which many believed was coming in their life times. Twisting Scripture out of context doesn't strengthen your point.

 

[Jipsah]

The reference in Peter's epistle was not about the Creation week.

Baloney. YOu're just trying to keep St. Peter from stepping on your doctrine. A fig for your doctrine!

It was an answer to the delay in the second coming of Christ which many believed was coming in their life times.

It is also the answer to your made-up "24 hour" rubbish.

Twisting Scripture out of context doesn't strengthen your point.

Making up stuff and saying "God said..." is more to your liking, innit? That, and saying ," Oh, that SCripture doesn't count here where it affects my made up doctrine.

And you want to accuse me of twisting Scripture? <ROFL> You don't bother to twist it, you just make it up as you go.

If you're really a Presbyterian you're the doggonedest one I ever saw. Most of 'em say "sola scriptura" and mean it. You seem to just see it as a starting point and then make the rest up on your own.

 

[Jipsah]

That's a reason why I believe evening and morning is referring to an unknown time frame.

Ditto.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Baloney. YOu're just trying to keep St. Peter from stepping on your doctrine. A fig for your doctrine!

It is also the answer to your made-up "24 hour" rubbish.

Making up stuff and saying "God said..." is more to your liking, innit? That, and saying ," Oh, that SCripture doesn't count here where it affects my made up doctrine.

And you want to accuse me of twisting Scripture? <ROFL> You don't bother to twist it, you just make it up as you go.

If you're really a Presbyterian you're the doggonedest one I ever saw. Most of 'em say "sola scriptura" and mean it. You seem to just see it as a starting point and then make the rest up on your own.

So this means that you can take any isolated verse from the Bible and attach any meaning you want to it. Okay then. I'll follow your system then. "Judas went out and hanged himself." "Go and do you likewise." There you go. I've taken two verses of Scripture out of their normal context and attached my own meaning to them.

 

[BeyondET]

Because God created time, therefore He exists outside of it. This is why God is not limited to our measurement of time. However, the Creation week is within our measurement of time. Only in eternity where God dwells where there is no time, a thousand hears in our time is just a mere day in ours. Therefore, Genesis 1 saying "Evening and morning, the first day", etc for five successful days, shows that creation took six 24 hours days in our time. Therefore trying to apply 1 Peter 3:8 to creation week is irrelevant.

Hmm, are we really supposed to be using our understanding about the morning and dawn. seems Job was doing something similar.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hmm, are we really supposed to be using our understanding about the morning and dawn. seems Job was doing something similar.

We believe just what the Bible literally says.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Hello,

Rather than make my own topic which would probably be the billionth topic with the same points on the creationist side of the creationist vs evolution debate. I decided to ask my questions in this thread since this topic is about Old Earth Creationism. I apologize ahead of time if my questions have already been answered in this thread it is 26 pages long and I don't have time to read it all and get the genuine arguments for Old Earth Creationism. Anyway, onto the questions.

1. How you can explain the inconsistencies from the Bible from an Old Earth creationist viewpoint? When IMO, the scriptures are clear on the age of the Earth and can you explain how Old Earth Creationism fits in with the creation of Adam (The first man) and Eve (The first woman) and how the first man and the first woman unionized and were the parents of mankind?

2. Can you explain the Genealogy of Jesus listed in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 and how it seems to give a definitive answer on how old the earth is given that 77 generations have existed from Adam to Jesus? If the Earth is billions of years old than how can there be 77 generations from the First man to Christ whom all scholars agree lived and died about 2,000 years ago? Either the 77 generations that existed from the first man lived extremely long lives or the Earth is in fact, young and that some of these generations are included in the Bible including, how old they were when they passed away. This in my opinion is probably the strongest argument for Young Earth Creationism so I'm curious on the response from the other side.

3. Can you explain how Carbon Dating can be 100% accurate when there easily could have been different levels of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere pre flood and the data that we have is from Scientists who automatically assume the Carbon 14 levels have been consistent over the course of time which would affect the accuracy of those results?

4. Can you explain how the Book of Genesis says that the First man was created on day six and how the Bible (and Jesus whose sayings should trump all arguments as he is believed by us to be God himself) says that Adam was the first man of creation? Part of the Old Earth Creation pointview is that humans could have existed before Adam but the Bible says very clearly that Adam was the first man of creation and that ONLY Adam and Eve existed in the beginning.

Those are the four main questions I have for now. I will likely ask more questions as we talk back and forth.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hello,

Rather than make my own topic which would probably be the billionth topic with the same points on the creationist side of the creationist vs evolution debate. I decided to ask my questions in this thread since this topic is about Old Earth Creationism. I apologize ahead of time if my questions have already been answered in this thread it is 26 pages long and I don't have time to read it all and get the genuine arguments for Old Earth Creationism. Anyway, onto the questions.

1. How you can explain the inconsistencies from the Bible from an Old Earth creationist viewpoint? When IMO, the scriptures are clear on the age of the Earth and can you explain how Old Earth Creationism fits in with the creation of Adam (The first man) and Eve (The first woman) and how the first man and the first woman unionized and were the parents of mankind?

2. Can you explain the Genealogy of Jesus listed in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 and how it seems to give a definitive answer on how old the earth is given that 77 generations have existed from Adam to Jesus? If the Earth is billions of years old than how can there be 77 generations from the First man to Christ whom all scholars agree lived and died about 2,000 years ago? Either the 77 generations that existed from the first man lived extremely long lives or the Earth is in fact, young and that some of these generations are included in the Bible including, how old they were when they passed away. This in my opinion is probably the strongest argument for Young Earth Creationism so I'm curious on the response from the other side.

3. Can you explain how Carbon Dating can be 100% accurate when there easily could have been different levels of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere pre flood and the data that we have is from Scientists who automatically assume the Carbon 14 levels have been consistent over the course of time which would affect the accuracy of those results?

4. Can you explain how the Book of Genesis says that the First man was created on day six and how the Bible (and Jesus whose sayings should trump all arguments as he is believed by us to be God himself) says that Adam was the first man of creation? Part of the Old Earth Creation pointview is that humans could have existed before Adam but the Bible says very clearly that Adam was the first man of creation and that ONLY Adam and Eve existed in the beginning.

Those are the four main questions I have for now. I will likely ask more questions as we talk back and forth.

As John said at the end of his Gospel, that "these things are written so that you can believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that we can receive salvation in His name" (my paraphrase). So, Genesis 1-11 was written to explain how the universe was created, how man came into being, what happened at the Fall and the consequences afterward. These provide the reason why Jesus Christ came into the world and why He was crucified and rose again from the dead.

The bottom line is that God said it (as inspired to Moses), and did not try to explain it more fully. We are expected to believe it, and a more comprehensive scientific explanation is basically redundant. God did not intend for us to have a scientific text book, but information enabling us to have a foundation for our faith in Christ. When John asked Jesus about what was going to happen to Peter and Judas, He said, "What is that to you? Follow me." Therefore, the answer to the questions seeking more information about Creation is: "What is that to you? Follow Jesus Christ".

This is because the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is about Christ, and this is the way to read it, not to speculate on the science of what was written in Genesis 1-11.

 

[BeyondET]

Hello,

Rather than make my own topic which would probably be the billionth topic with the same points on the creationist side of the creationist vs evolution debate. I decided to ask my questions in this thread since this topic is about Old Earth Creationism. I apologize ahead of time if my questions have already been answered in this thread it is 26 pages long and I don't have time to read it all and get the genuine arguments for Old Earth Creationism. Anyway, onto the questions.

1. How you can explain the inconsistencies from the Bible from an Old Earth creationist viewpoint? When IMO, the scriptures are clear on the age of the Earth and can you explain how Old Earth Creationism fits in with the creation of Adam (The first man) and Eve (The first woman) and how the first man and the first woman unionized and were the parents of mankind?

2. Can you explain the Genealogy of Jesus listed in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 and how it seems to give a definitive answer on how old the earth is given that 77 generations have existed from Adam to Jesus? If the Earth is billions of years old than how can there be 77 generations from the First man to Christ whom all scholars agree lived and died about 2,000 years ago? Either the 77 generations that existed from the first man lived extremely long lives or the Earth is in fact, young and that some of these generations are included in the Bible including, how old they were when they passed away. This in my opinion is probably the strongest argument for Young Earth Creationism so I'm curious on the response from the other side.

3. Can you explain how Carbon Dating can be 100% accurate when there easily could have been different levels of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere pre flood and the data that we have is from Scientists who automatically assume the Carbon 14 levels have been consistent over the course of time which would affect the accuracy of those results?

4. Can you explain how the Book of Genesis says that the First man was created on day six and how the Bible (and Jesus whose sayings should trump all arguments as he is believed by us to be God himself) says that Adam was the first man of creation? Part of the Old Earth Creation pointview is that humans could have existed before Adam but the Bible says very clearly that Adam was the first man of creation and that ONLY Adam and Eve existed in the beginning.

Those are the four main questions I have for now. I will likely ask more questions as we talk back and forth.

Can you explain how God rested on the 7th day after He blessed them and told them to multiply then clothed them sent them out of the garden scorned for their actions.

Either the six day is a future event or it's not. Can't have God resting then creating Eve. Genesis 2/3 can't be explaining creation with more broader details with the fall of man.

 

[Jipsah]

We believe just what the Bible literally says.

Who's "we"? Not you, certainly. You've already demonstrated your willingness to say "God said..." and then follow it with stuff that God never said at all. That's as fgar from Biblical literalism as one can get.

 

[Sheila Davis]

How do you account for the fact that Adam was created on the sixth day? Are you saying that Adam lived for millions of years during the sixth day? If you are saying that the first five days took millions of years each, then Adam must have lived for millions of years during the sixth day of creation. Or, the sixth day, just like the previous five were just 24 hours. Otherwise how could five days be millions of years each, and the sixth 24 hours? Seems illogical to me seeing that Adam lived just over 900 years after the Fall.

Adam had access to the Tree of Life and according to Genesis 3:22 the tree of life gives a form of immortality.

And I thought I said a day to the Lord could also be a million years a trillion years a billion years.
The 6th day, God's time which is not measurable - he told the Earth to bring forth the Beast first, and then the cattle and then God formed man and placed him in a garden in the East of Eden which he had prepared...... Beast defined as huge ferocious animals represents dinosaurs, cattle represents what we have here today tamer.

Your statement is indicating that God created Adam at the beginning of the 6th day but he didn't - Adam was the last of his creations on the sixth day which could have been 100,000 - 500,000 - a million years ago. And I said could have. And once Adam ate from the Tree of knowledge it negated all the effects of the Tree of Life.

But to those who believe the Earth is just over 6000 years old, they will never see from my point of view, and that's fine....... Churches teach and believe as they have been taught throughout the centuries or began to understand scripture. Beliefs in the age of the Earth will not save or damn anyone.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Adam had access to the Tree of Life and according to Genesis 3:22 the tree of life gives a form of immortality.

And I thought I said a day to the Lord could also be a million years a trillion years a billion years.
The 6th day, God's time which is not measurable - he told the Earth to bring forth the Beast first, and then the cattle and then God formed man and placed him in a garden in the East of Eden which he had prepared...... Beast defined as huge ferocious animals represents dinosaurs, cattle represents what we have here today tamer.

Your statement is indicating that God created Adam at the beginning of the 6th day but he didn't - Adam was the last of his creations on the sixth day which could have been 100,000 - 500,000 - a million years ago. And I said could have. And once Adam ate from the Tree of knowledge it negated all the effects of the Tree of Life.

But to those who believe the Earth is just over 6000 years old, they will never see from my point of view, and that's fine....... Churches teach and believe as they have been taught throughout the centuries or began to understand scripture. Beliefs in the age of the Earth will not save or damn anyone.

Your views are based on eisegesis, which is reading stuff into the Bible which is not there. The quote about a thousand years being a day to the Lord, does not refer to creation at all. Paul is referring to those who are concerned about the delay in the Second Coming of Christ, to show that God is in no hurry, and because He created time, He lives outside of it. Our measurement of time means nothing to the Lord.

Adam was created on the sixth day, and God rested on the seventh. Adam tending the Garden and counting the animals as well as Eve being created was after the sixth day.

 

[Jipsah]

Your views are based on eisegesis, which is reading stuff into the Bible which is not there.

This from the bloke who says "God said..." and follows it with stuff God didn't say.

The quote about a thousand years being a day to the Lord, does not refer to creation at all.

And here you give us a grand example of eisegesis. St. Peter tells us that God doesn't reckon time as we do, and dine you can't accept that and keep your favorite doctrine intact, you, and you immediately claim that it only counts when talking about the return of our Lord. Of course there's no support at all for your claim, is there? It ties in directly with Psalms 90:4 "For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes, or a watch of the night", but somehow you simply ignore and hope no one notices.

Paul is referring to those who are concerned about the delay in the Second Coming of Christ, to show that God is in no hurry, and because He created time, He lives outside of it. Our measurement of time means nothing to the Lord.

Except of course when you decide that the Creation took precisely six 24-hour (good old arbitrary man-made hours? Really?) in which case God is bound by our clock. Balderdash.

Adam was created on the sixth day

Yep, and once again, how long is a "day" for God? Oh, yeah, "24 hours". Right.

 

[Diamond7]

mGenesis doesn't say that Adam was created on the 6th day. Adam is never mentioned in Genesis chapter 1.

The Bible Adam in Chapter two is descended from the Time Magazine or Science Adam in Chapter one. We can look at the Cohan Gene to get an understanding of how the Science of DNA compares with the generations in the Bible.

Genesis 23:15 This passage points to the promise of Jesus’ birth, His redemption, and His victory over Satan. The woman’s offspring is Jesus. The genealogy or generations from Eve to Mary is very important. That is why the new testament begins with this.

 

[FredVB]

It works to say there was an unformed rocky mass. There would be others scattered far apart, it would not have been distinct, for however long a time it had been there. God would have water introduced that would be covering it. God made the light which shone on it which happened the first day. God then made everything else there over that six day period, with everything living made then. It was then the perfect creation from God's design, the only thing God is shown to speak of being very good in any passages, and there was no killing, there was no death of any until sin was done, by choice, with more sins since then, and the fall came with curse that would grow and spread through the world, things becoming corrupted with that and systems in it running down. Creatures changed somewhat over all the time after that, but were with the same general makeup that is inherited, from the original gene pools. All creation is groaning with this corruption in which there is suffering, only with hope for restoration, which God is promising, but we and all people need to be with repentant faith for being restored to God through Christ making it possible.

It does not need such explanation if there is a really long time this unformed planet was here before the week of creation, but a claim that days of the week, with a day of rest which Sabbath is reminding us of, are long ages, is hard to explain where we have plain understanding of the scripture passages about the week of creation.

 

[Job 33:6]

Hello,

Rather than make my own topic which would probably be the billionth topic with the same points on the creationist side of the creationist vs evolution debate. I decided to ask my questions in this thread since this topic is about Old Earth Creationism. I apologize ahead of time if my questions have already been answered in this thread it is 26 pages long and I don't have time to read it all and get the genuine arguments for Old Earth Creationism. Anyway, onto the questions.

1. How you can explain the inconsistencies from the Bible from an Old Earth creationist viewpoint? When IMO, the scriptures are clear on the age of the Earth and can you explain how Old Earth Creationism fits in with the creation of Adam (The first man) and Eve (The first woman) and how the first man and the first woman unionized and were the parents of mankind?

2. Can you explain the Genealogy of Jesus listed in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 and how it seems to give a definitive answer on how old the earth is given that 77 generations have existed from Adam to Jesus? If the Earth is billions of years old than how can there be 77 generations from the First man to Christ whom all scholars agree lived and died about 2,000 years ago? Either the 77 generations that existed from the first man lived extremely long lives or the Earth is in fact, young and that some of these generations are included in the Bible including, how old they were when they passed away. This in my opinion is probably the strongest argument for Young Earth Creationism so I'm curious on the response from the other side.

3. Can you explain how Carbon Dating can be 100% accurate when there easily could have been different levels of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere pre flood and the data that we have is from Scientists who automatically assume the Carbon 14 levels have been consistent over the course of time which would affect the accuracy of those results?

4. Can you explain how the Book of Genesis says that the First man was created on day six and how the Bible (and Jesus whose sayings should trump all arguments as he is believed by us to be God himself) says that Adam was the first man of creation? Part of the Old Earth Creation pointview is that humans could have existed before Adam but the Bible says very clearly that Adam was the first man of creation and that ONLY Adam and Eve existed in the beginning.

Those are the four main questions I have for now. I will likely ask more questions as we talk back and forth.

I'd recommend beginning here:

 

[Jipsah]

It does not need such explanation if there is a really long time this unformed planet was here before the week of creation, but a claim that days of the week, with a day of rest which Sabbath is reminding us of, are long ages, is hard to explain where we have plain understanding of the scripture passages about the week of creation.

I take it you don'y notice how much stuff you just made up in that "explanation".