Of course you know about the religious right...

[essentialsaltes]

Of course it is you that takes advantage.

Who exactly is taking advantage of making diagnoses of 'mental illness'?

 

[DaisyDay]

If there is no third sex, we have to conclude that sex is binary. It isn't trinary, or something else.

Not really. Sex is more of a spectrum than an absolute. Shades of gray, rather than absolutely black and absolutely white. Men and women each have varying levels of testosterone and estrogen. It isn't that men only have testosterone or that women have only estrogen. Then it is further complicated by hormone receptors and expressions.

The far-left makes claims like "biological sex isn't binary", or "sex is a social construct" --that stuff is complete nonsense

By "binary" do you mean completely one or completely the other? This or that, not bits of both?

I believe the expression is that "gender is a social construct" not "sex". Would you go as far as that, gender instead of sex?

a woman who does not produce eggs, because of an anatomical issue, disease, etc. is still a woman by virtue of chromosomes, genitalia, muscular-skeletal arrangement, etc. We don't say to a woman who cannot produce eggs "you are neither male nor female"

Yeah, I pretty sure that is what I said. Are you too stubborn to agree?

as far as "gender" goes, it is this nebulous term that is thrown around without any strict definition. It means one thing today, and something else tomorrow, depending on context and intention.

Social terms tend to be more vague and nebulous than scientific terms. Some people can deal with ambiguity more easily than others who need certainty.

There is no such thing as "transgendered". There is such a thing as gender dysphoria, neurosis, and psychosis. Transgenderism is ideology not science, and I am under absolutely no obligation to respect, or even acknowledge a given ideology.

You are under no obligation to acknowledge anything. However, I find it helpful in this life to understand something before dismissing it out of hand - especially bothersome things.

Because the minute I go down that rabbit hole, people will start claiming they are cats, or space aliens, and start asking for litter boxes or special alien bathrooms.

Yes, that's the problem with excepting transgendered people.

 

[BCP1928]

Who exactly is taking advantage of making diagnoses of 'mental illness'?

It used to be a big part of Soviet domestic policy. Marxists made a fine thing of it.

 

[ralliann]

Who exactly is taking advantage of making diagnoses of 'mental illness'?

Well when people believe they are something other than what they are for many millenia has been acknowledged as a delusion. It is you saying,,, oh no in this one instance it is not.
It may be a reality for those that believe it, but it does not make it true to the sexual/gender biological reality.

 

[QvQ]

...at odds with their genitalia. Things like sexual preferences, emotional responses, social behavior, preferences in occupational and social roles, the totality of traits that for most of us are generally associated with "man" or "woman" over and above their genitalia.

Perhaps sexual preference
However, mankind is gender neutral as to "emotional responses, social behavior, preferences in occupational and social roles, the totality of traits generally associated with "man or woman"

 

[ralliann]

Perhaps sexual preference
However, mankind is gender neutral as to "emotional responses, social behavior, preferences in occupational and social roles, the totality of traits generally associated with "man or woman"

Isn't this true of delusional persons as well?

 

[ralliann]

What we are talking about is kids and how we are to prepare them for life in a world where gender non-conforming people exist, where they might themselves be gender nonconforming in some way.

Again, who is the "we" in your above statement. The parents should do this, not the "we/state". Barring seeking help for some abnormality/mental illness etc.

 

[BCP1928]

Well when people believe they are something other than what they are for many millenia has been acknowledged as a delusion. It is you saying,,, oh no in this one instance it is not.
It may be a reality for those that believe it, but it does not make it true to the sexual/gender biological reality.

So you are saying that the gender conformity you require is a biological reality. How does that work? The gay guy is a sinner, but the straight guy who is swishy is mentally ill? Or is he a sinner, too, for not being "manly" enough. Maybe if he was swishy on purpose...? No, you're going to have to explain it better

 

[BCP1928]

Isn't this true of delusional persons as well?

No, the traits are real. Even you can observe them.

 

[BCP1928]

Perhaps sexual preference
However, mankind is gender neutral as to "emotional responses, social behavior, preferences in occupational and social roles, the totality of traits generally associated with "man or woman"

Unfortunately, the Christian church is not neutral.

 

[Hazelelponi]

So you are saying that the gender conformity you require is a biological reality. How does that work? The gay guy is a sinner, but the straight guy who is swishy is mentally ill? Or is he a sinner, too, for not being "manly" enough. Maybe if he was swishy on purpose...? No, you're going to have to explain it better

What law do you believe needs changed?

I'm not seeing what laws your concerned about ..

3rd time with the question now. If there's no law to change what does your issues have to do with politics?

 

[BCP1928]

What law do you believe needs changed?

I'm not seeing what laws your concerned about ..

I wasn't talking about any laws, except those you might want to pass to have gender nonconformity treated as a mental illness on no more grounds, apparently, than that it is a Christian sin.

 

[ralliann]

So you are saying that the gender conformity you require is a biological reality. How does that work? The gay guy is a sinner, but the straight guy who is swishy is mentally ill? Or is he a sinner, too, for not being "manly" enough. Maybe if he was swishy on purpose...? No, you're going to have to explain it better

Gender is a made up modern idea. It is you attempting to make others conform to your ideas.
Mental disorders exist. Some are manifest sexually. We see people hearing voices talking to those voices. They are real, they do hear voices. Is there anyone there in reality? Should we acknowledge their reality by saying Yes, there is someone there you are hearing? Some delusions are basically harmless, some are not.

 

[ralliann]

No, the traits are real. Even you can observe them.

What do you call traits of those who hear voices and respond both emotional and social.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I wasn't talking about any laws, except those you might want to pass to have gender nonconformity treated as a mental illness on no more grounds, apparently, than that it is a Christian sin.

Well, it IS a mental illness when it leads to self harm like genital mutilation.

So, there's that.

Outside of that no one is "mis gendered", everyone is just an individual.. being themselves.

But since you're just here on a good will tour and don't want to discuss laws your disappointed in I'll leave you to it. I go for the politics myself.

 

[BCP1928]

Gender is a made up modern idea. It is you attempting to make others conform to your ideas.
Mental disorders exist. Some are manifest sexually. We see people hearing voices talking to those voices. They are real, they do hear voices. Is there anyone there in reality? Should we acknowledge their reality by saying Yes, there is someone there you are hearing? Some delusions are basically harmless, some are not.

OK, so it's a made up modern idea. What about it? What about the actual people involved? Why is a little boy, say, who likes to play with girls' toys rather than boys' such a problem for you that you want to designate him mentally ill? What should I do about my daughter who is a 40 year old journeyman machinist and shop foreman and has no interest in marriage and kids? Put her in a loony bin for her nonconformity to the Christian female role model?

 

[ralliann]

OK, so it's a made up modern idea. What about it? What about the actual people involved? Why is a little boy, say, who likes to play with girls' toys rather than boys' such a problem for you that you want to designate him mentally ill?

I didn't say that, you did. So what if a little boy does that?

What should I do about my daughter who is a 40 year old journeyman machinist and shop foreman and has no interest in marriage and kids? Put her in a loony bin for her nonconformity to the Christian female role model?

Your daughter is 40 years old. Why should you do anything?

 

[Merrill]

Not really. Sex is more of a spectrum than an absolute. Shades of gray, rather than absolutely black and absolutely white. Men and women each have varying levels of testosterone and estrogen. It isn't that men only have testosterone or that women have only estrogen. Then it is further complicated by hormone receptors and expressions.


By "binary" do you mean completely one or completely the other? This or that, not bits of both?

I believe the expression is that "gender is a social construct" not "sex". Would you go as far as that, gender instead of sex?


Yeah, I pretty sure that is what I said. Are you too stubborn to agree?


Social terms tend to be more vague and nebulous than scientific terms. Some people can deal with ambiguity more easily than others who need certainty.


You are under no obligation to acknowledge anything. However, I find it helpful in this life to understand something before dismissing it out of hand - especially bothersome things.


Yes, that's the problem with excepting transgendered people.

"Not really. Sex is more of a spectrum than an absolute. Shades of gray, rather than absolutely black and absolutely white."

I am not sure what you are trying to say there. Biological sex is binary, that is equivalent to saying "black or white". Why?

Because there is no third sex (or fourth). There is no XYZ, no person that can fertilize "his" own eggs and give birth to children. When people die, coroners can determine their sex, and it is always male or female, despite rare, anatomical abnormalities.

there is no "spectrum" involved here. You are fundamentally male or female.

People are conflating gender with biology, and making nonsense claims, like "men can give birth too". Likewise, even very intelligent people like Justice Jackson can't answer a simple question "what is a woman" without responding with "I need to check with an expert"

 

[Hazelelponi]

OK, so it's a made up modern idea. What about it? What about the actual people involved? Why is a little boy, say, who likes to play with girls' toys rather than boys' such a problem for you that you want to designate him mentally ill? What should I do about my daughter who is a 40 year old journeyman machinist and shop foreman and has no interest in marriage and kids? Put her in a loony bin for her nonconformity to the Christian female role model?

Just throwing this out there but woah .. slow down.

Women are all kinds of things, including mechanics and electrical journeyman. It's 2024. Women like anyone else are a range of things.

The Apostle Paul never married and appeared to have no desire to, ever.

Women worked harder 2,000 years ago than they do today... For real that.

There's a range of traits society sees as typical to males or females, but in females the spectrum can go into the masculine and and in males the spectrum can go into the feminine.

People are just people.

Don't let someone charge you hundreds of thousands of dollars to cut you up. Just be you. Then if you ever don't like something you just change it to whatever new things you want to do and be.

 

[ozso]

Those aren't terms I would think or use on anyone. You seem to have internalized some hatred and blame towards the poor. That's sad.

I am the poor. Dirt poor. As I already laid out in this thread. What's said is making ignorant assumptions about people and then attacking them.

See the Affordable Care Act.

The affordable care act left me without health insurance for several years.