obun deba shunobanata

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
And I do find it easyier and more effective to pray both with the spirit and with the mind. They compliment each other alot.

We pray in the Spirit because we don't know what to pray for but the Spirit does.  Then while praying in the Spirit, things start coming to your mind to pray for with understanding. I consider this to be interpretation. 

I did this last night while I was preparing for all the little one's that would be coming to my door for treats.  I had pre-packaged small friendship bracelets, a piece of candy, and a tract in small baggies.  

Before they started coming I started out praying in tongues, then I started singing in tongues.  Then I began to sing with understanding over the children that would be coming to my door.  It was great.  The Spirit of God was calling them forth into His Kingdom. There were at least 70 children that received ministry last night.

Being that I accepted Jesus in my heart at a very young age, I don't remember at all when I first received the baptisim of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.  I was young.  It's something I just stepped into, somewhere along the line.

I have found it to be a great aid in time of need.  In situations of fear I have prayed in tongues and I could feel strength and boldness welling up inside.  In times of temptation it has helped too.

Speaking in tongues has brought to my mind what I need to do when I don't know what to do.  To say the God thing, when I don't know what to say.

The Spirit, via speaking in tongues has lifted me out of depression when my mind was too depressed to speak life with my own understanding.

People should check for themselves into this gift a lot more closely.  From my own observation, the one's who use it frequently don't seem to be as battered by the enemy as those who don't use it or don't believe in it at all.

The Holy Spirt is here for our comfort and He has brought the tongues of men and of angels to help us be more effective in our walks with God.  We ought not to be rejecting it.  Especially when  some of the rejections are based on what someone else has concluded.

 

[LouisBooth]

"1 Corinthians 13:8-10, 12 “Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears… now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part,; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”"

None of this dislogdes what I said an interpreter does. He/she understands perfectly what a person is saying in tongues, there is no guesswork or fear about it.

"For starters, there were about 120 disciples (Act 1:15) and they were all speaking in tongues. Different disciples speaking in different known languages that were understood by the Jews who were there. No interpreter required, because the gift of interpretation is a spiritual gift that none of those not-yet-repented Jews would have had yet.
"

Wrong. There were interpreters. Each person understood it in his own tongue. they themselves where the interperater.

"There’s your mysteries. The person is speaking not to men but to God. No-one understands. This is not the same human language that was understood without the need of an interpreter."

this person is speaking in tongues and there is no interpreter thus it should not be done in public for it is between you and God. Thanks for yet again added evidience to my case.

"The account I cited was totally consistent with Acts 2. A Jew was converted thanks to that tongue being spoken. That was not a perversion or an absence of the gift of tongues."

No, it is not. Your view on tongues is a perversion in the fact you think there are several types and there are not. Thus you have a unbiblical teaching on tongues and I won't heed your "advice" on how to use them because its not biblical.

"Whatever abuses there were in Azusa Street, there was evidence that it was of God (see my previous Azusa Street example)."

No, there is evidience there was a spirit at work, not always God. You assume that just because a tongue or something happens like it it means God is at work, this is not so because if its not biblical, its not God.

"Where’s your scripture?"

I don't think you're following along. I quoted some scripture that SAID EXACTLY what I was saying. There is no fear where God is.

"I think you would agree, the Bible contains the word of God and the word of God is infallible."

1. I do believe the word of God to be infalliable
2. You do not adhere to the word of God in this case
3. thus I do not believe you or your experiece is biblical
4. Don't use "God relieved me this and that" and expect me to believe you. Mr. Smith said the same thing and I don't believe him either, thus I'm not a morman, are you?

"On a side note, may I ask whether you have this gift? And what you mean if you say that you do? Just curious."

Tongues? Nope, but that is not pertinent to the interperation of the bible, for I do have the gift of teaching.

 

[rapturefish]

Hi Louis,

I will not respond to your post. You are abrasive. You talk down to me and your attitude may do fine in the world of professional debating but on a Christian forum it's found wanting.

No, it is not. Your view on tongues is a perversion in the fact you think there are several types and there are not. Thus you have a unbiblical teaching on tongues and I won't heed your "advice" on how to use them because its not biblical.

1. I do believe the word of God to be infalliable
2. You do not adhere to the word of God in this case
3. thus I do not believe you or your experiece is biblical
4. Don't use "God relieved me this and that" and expect me to believe you. Mr. Smith said the same thing and I don't believe him either, thus I'm not a morman, are you?

How is this helpful to debate? You don't believe I am biblical, nor is my experience biblical, you use the words perversion, unbiblical, etc. and somehow I am supposed to kowtow to your supposedly superior infallible interpretation of scripture. Thanks for making me feel it was not worth my while to post the myriad of scripture references where you have posted one. How do you ever expect me to be convinced of anything you say by such insinuatory language?

What did you hope to achieve? To weed out heresy? Well you'd better review your methods because all you have achieved is step on my toes. You have no love in your posts and were I a non-christian I would be appalled by your attitude.

Goodbye.

 

[LouisBooth]

"You talk down to me"

I very much appologize if you think I'm talking down to you.

"How is this helpful to debate? "

well, you keep saying and implying that I don't have the gift of tongues so I don't know what I"m talking about, thus I say that doesn't matter. You also say that you have this gift and thus I should listen to you so you can teach me. To that I say I wouldn't believe you because you're either 1. not using it right as per your words (ie unblibcal useage) or 2. you dont' have it.

"superior infallible interpretation of scripture."

I'm just quoting biblical passages to you. the words speak for themselves. If I say, "the sky is blue." it doesn't take any special revilation for you to conclude I think the sky is blue. the same with this passage, yet you constantly try and insert your ideas onto it and the like.

"posted one. "

Yup, I posted one saying exactly what I said, almost word for word about fear and how God has not given to use a spirit of fear. Your references in scripture are great references for this topic, but they do not say what you want them to, so you insert your ideas onto them to make them say what you want. I won't appologize for speaking the truth to you, but I will appologize if I'm harsh doing it.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I have one question, to whomever wants to answer.

Does any scripture nulify another?

 

[HSFSAHM]

Just a quick 2 cents as I'm not sure I really want to get into this so early in the morning! Upon being "baptised in the Holy Spirit" the evidence is speaking in tongues. Your own private prayer language. It is used to edify yourself or perhaps when you don't know exactly how you can pray. It is the perfect prayer because it is essentially Jesus taking the prayers of your heart to the Father. Tongues in the corporate setting is entirely different and yes, must be interpreted by the giver or someone else in the congregation. It is sort of like a prophecy for the body. Also, I'm not Catholic, but the Father here in my town is "baptised in the Holy Spirit" and speaks in tongues.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by HSFSAHM
Just a quick 2 cents as I'm not sure I really want to get into this so early in the morning! Upon being "baptised in the Holy Spirit" the evidence is speaking in tongues. Your own private prayer language. It is used to edify yourself or perhaps when you don't know exactly how you can pray. It is the perfect prayer because it is essentially Jesus taking the prayers of your heart to the Father. Tongues in the corporate setting is entirely different and yes, must be interpreted by the giver or someone else in the congregation. It is sort of like a prophecy for the body. Also, I'm not Catholic, but the Father here in my town is "baptised in the Holy Spirit" and speaks in tongues.

HSFSAHM, (what does this stand for?) 

Anyway, your 2 cents was pretty good.  

Yes, in a corporate setting the tongue given as a message should be interpreted.  However, there is the occasion that it is not, and that is not somthing to string up and shoot the tongues speaker because of it.  Nor does it mean "positively, without any mercy" that God did not have something to say.

God is working through human flesh.  And human flesh becomes fearful and often does not respond to God due to that fear.  Now according to the scripture Louis gave, we know that if we have fear, that fear is not from God. 

So, does that mean because we "feel" fear that means that God does not want us to speak?  If one is to say "yes", then we must apply that concept to everything we feel fear about.  Some people have a fear of witnessing.  Does that mean that God does not want them to witness?  Of course not.

If we have a spirit of fear, it did not come from God, therefore, we, as believers have the authority to kick "fears" butt out the door and proceed with what God has told us to do. 

But, being agents of free will . . .we sometimes let the spirt of fear have it's say, instead of God.

God has not given us a spirit of fear.  He has given us a spirit of love, power, and a sound mind. 

 

 

[HSFSAHM]

Quaffer, I totally agree. Sorry if I wasn't so clear, I was in a hurry. Yes, I know there are circumstances where the interpretation isn't given. But someone should always atleast "have" the interpretation. I have seen situations where a message in tongues was given corporately and an interpretation never came forth, later to find out someone had it and was too chicken to deliver. HAHA! I think you can definately "feel" when it's (the interpretation) is out there and not being spoken. I'm probably opening up a can of worms, but... when you are "filled with the Holy Spirit" one has gifts that others do not. Such as a sensitivity to these types of circumstances(descernment). Not to mention healing, tongues, prophecy....etc. Don't you agree? God Bless, Holy Spirit Filled Stay At Home Mom (HSFSAHM) P.S. Sorry I didn't spell check, forgive my horrid spelling.

 

[SUNSTONE]

LouisBooth

1. What does Paul mean by saying "desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy."?

2.Also here "Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy;"?

3. This is a tough question here, "and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, UNLESS he interprets," Wouldn't that mean there are two types of tongues? Please explain.

4. Paul said that not everyone prophesies, or heals, and so on, how does this work with the statements that he put here?

5. What did you mean when you say that unless someone interprets, they should not speak in public? Do you mean that they should speak to themselves and to God, with no one around?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by HSFSAHM
Quaffer, I totally agree. Sorry if I wasn't so clear, I was in a hurry. Yes, I know there are circumstances where the interpretation isn't given. But someone should always atleast "have" the interpretation. I have seen situations where a message in tongues was given corporately and an interpretation never came forth, later to find out someone had it and was too chicken to deliver. HAHA! I think you can definately "feel" when it's (the interpretation) is out there and not being spoken. I'm probably opening up a can of worms, but... when you are "filled with the Holy Spirit" one has gifts that others do not. Such as a sensitivity to these types of circumstances(descernment). Not to mention healing, tongues, prophecy....etc. Don't you agree? God Bless, Holy Spirit Filled Stay At Home Mom (HSFSAHM) P.S. Sorry I didn't spell check, forgive my horrid spelling.

Wow, that reminds me of an old Carman song, where the words were something to the effect of: I am a born again, blood washed, Spirit filled, testifying, tongue talking, Spirit walking, pew jumpin', overcoming, child of God.  It's a great song. 

Anyway, I understood what you meant and agree with you.  When I first started out "growing up" in that gift, I was terrified.  Terrified that I'd be strung up by those who were more advanced in the gift than I.  Terrified that I would say it the wrong way.  Terrified that I would stumble over my words.  And terrified that I would get halfway through and not be able to finish.  Many times I had it but was too afraid.

That last one happened to me a couple of times and I thank God that my Pastor was gracious.  People will never grow when we come down on them like "gestapo's".  With time I have overcome fear, because it's a spirit that's not from God.  And now I step out and the words from God flow. 

What a wonderful God we serve.  He so much wants fellowship with us.  I'm in awe of His love and care toward us. 

 

 

[HSFSAHM]

Awesome. You sound so wise. Just the kind of person I like to learn from! I have had it prophesied over me that I will one day have the gift of speaking corporately (office of tongues). It does frighten me. I move in many spiritual gifts, but for some reasons this one makes me shake! I asked the question of a wise woman once, "What if you receive a word and chose not to speak it?" Her reply was, "You will only do it(hold back) once, for it will break your heart." Did you find this to be true? Also, when you have delivered a message in tongues did you also have the interpretation or did someone else? Just curious.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by HSFSAHM
Awesome. You sound so wise. Just the kind of person I like to learn from! I have had it prophesied over me that I will one day have the gift of speaking corporately (office of tongues). It does frighten me. I move in many spiritual gifts, but for some reasons this one makes me shake! I asked the question of a wise woman once, "What if you receive a word and chose not to speak it?" Her reply was, "You will only do it(hold back) once, for it will break your heart." Did you find this to be true? Also, when you have delivered a message in tongues did you also have the interpretation or did someone else? Just curious.

 

Flattery just got you some more blessings.  I just love giving blessings out. 

That wise woman told you correctly.  I kicked myself for several days over that.  No one else had to do it for me.

When I first started out I had only the message in tongue.  Someone else, usually my Pastor gave the intrepretion.  1 Cor 14:13 says "Therefore, the person who speaks in an unknown tongue should pray for the power to interpret and explain what he says.(amplified)

I began to seek God for the interpretation as well as the tongue and now I'm able to do both.  I find myself now, holding back in the tongue because I know that someone else is supposed to give it.  And then when they do, I interpret.  These gifts are not limited to just certain people or quantity.  I make sure to incourage them in the gift too because I know what they are going through.

God bless you and just step out.  The more you do, the easier it gets.

 

[LouisBooth]

"1. What does Paul mean by saying "desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy."?"

Exactly what he says.

"2.Also here "Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy;"?
"

Exactly what he says.

""and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, UNLESS he interprets," Wouldn't that mean there are two types of tongues? Please explain."

No there are not two types of tongues, he was comparing the one that isn't interpreted (ie not used in public because you're talking to God) and the one that is translated that ALWAYS has an interpreter.

"4. Paul said that not everyone prophesies, or heals, and so on, how does this work with the statements that he put here?"

Simple, it means just what it says, not everyone has those gifts. Thus a pastor saying to his congragation, lets all speak in tongues now, is very very unbiblical.

"Do you mean that they should speak to themselves and to God, with no one around?"

No, they shouldn't speak at all because they are in public. I don't get naked in public, not even when no one sees me in public, because its IN PUBLIC.

 

[HSFSAHM]

Goodmorning Quaffer, thanks for the blessings and the encouragement. I'll keep in mind what you said. Have a great day, HSFSAHM

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"1. What does Paul mean by saying "desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy."?"

Exactly what he says.

"2.Also here "Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy;"?
"

Exactly what he says.

""and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, UNLESS he interprets," Wouldn't that mean there are two types of tongues? Please explain."

No there are not two types of tongues, he was comparing the one that isn't interpreted (ie not used in public because you're talking to God) and the one that is translated that ALWAYS has an interpreter.

"4. Paul said that not everyone prophesies, or heals, and so on, how does this work with the statements that he put here?"

Simple, it means just what it says, not everyone has those gifts. Thus a pastor saying to his congragation, lets all speak in tongues now, is very very unbiblical.

"Do you mean that they should speak to themselves and to God, with no one around?"

No, they shouldn't speak at all because they are in public. I don't get naked in public, not even when no one sees me in public, because its IN PUBLIC.

1.  Paul wants everyone to desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy, and he wishs that everyone would speak in tongues. Why would he tell you to push for it,if he knew that not everyone was going to get them?

This is what I think, you can recieve all the gifts after some time, work, and teachings from the Holy Spirit. Now you won't always use them all the time. If you come together in a church or group, there will be some to prophecy, some for tongues, some to heal, what ever the body needs, or even wants at that time. Now after the meeting you may go home and have needs there for all the gifts, and God will use you to do all of the gifts, if needed or wanted. You may not special in the ones that you use, but there still there to go for, just like Paul asked you and everyone else to push for.

2. How do you desire to prophecy?

3. Didn't Paul have all the gifts? He healed, miracles, tongues, prophecy, teachings. I can't think of the others, but I know he did these. Even some of the others that weren't apostles, did many of the gifts. 


4. What if I was home alone, should I speak in tongues?
 

 

[LouisBooth]

"Why would he tell you to push for it,if he knew that not everyone was going to get them? "

I wish everyone could be a teacher and see the joy on the face of a young man when he gets what God is telling him. Doesn't mean they are gonna.

"you can recieve all the gifts after some time, work, and teachings from the Holy Spirit."

And I disagree

"2. How do you desire to prophecy?"

Desire to hear what God has planned for you in his will? How do you not?


"What if I was home alone, should I speak in tongues?"

I would guess so.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
1.  Paul wants everyone to desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy, and he wishs that everyone would speak in tongues. Why would he tell you to push for it,if he knew that not everyone was going to get them?

This is what I think, you can recieve all the gifts after some time, work, and teachings from the Holy Spirit. Now you won't always use them all the time. If you come together in a church or group, there will be some to prophecy, some for tongues, some to heal, what ever the body needs, or even wants at that time. Now after the meeting you may go home and have needs there for all the gifts, and God will use you to do all of the gifts, if needed or wanted. You may not special in the ones that you use, but there still there to go for, just like Paul asked you and everyone else to push for.

2. How do you desire to prophecy?

3. Didn't Paul have all the gifts? He healed, miracles, tongues, prophecy, teachings. I can't think of the others, but I know he did these. Even some of the others that weren't apostles, did many of the gifts. 


4. What if I was home alone, should I speak in tongues?
 

Paul tells us to STIR UP the gifts.

How would you instruct me to do that?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Why would he tell you to push for it,if he knew that not everyone was going to get them? "

I wish everyone could be a teacher and see the joy on the face of a young man when he gets what God is telling him. Doesn't mean they are gonna.

"you can recieve all the gifts after some time, work, and teachings from the Holy Spirit."

And I disagree

"2. How do you desire to prophecy?"

Desire to hear what God has planned for you in his will? How do you not?


"What if I was home alone, should I speak in tongues?"

I would guess so.

Why would I speak in tongues at home by myself?

 

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Quaffer
Paul tells us to STIR UP the gifts.

How would you instruct me to do that?

Doing the things of the spirit, like worship, praying, and fasting. Also hanging out with other believers, who desire the spiritual gifts. Focus in your mind what the truth is, and what is not.Have scriptures memorized in your head to fight the lies of satan.Like Jesus did in the forest during the 40 day fast. Stay focused on God's word and what it says. The devil will try to trick you into believing in a lie, and this will effect your faith if you listen to him and believe him over God. Be like a bulldog that latchs onto something so hard that you need a crow bar to pry him off.

BULLDOG FAITH!! Jesus said in many of the answered prayers, "let it be done, according to "your" faith." The bible also says, faith without works is dead. Its a sowing and reaping thing, but you have the promise, that "even as He is, so are we in this world". Jesus didn't come out swinging(ministry), but after putting in alot of time and hard work, He tore the devil a new #$$h*le   Work is a gift from God the bible says, but the devil will try to trick you in a number of ways, one "oh work sucks" two, "you should be working to collect things, and show people how strong you are". The Christian, walk and work is about reaching the lost and edifying the church, not about things that fill a house that sit there and don't do a thing. Jesus said invest in the kingdom of heaven where neither moths nor rust can reach.

[And for this reason I remind you to kindle afresh through the laying on of my hands. For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.] 2 Tim 1:6+7

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Doing the things of the spirit, like worship, praying, and fasting. Also hanging out with other believers, who desire the spiritual gifts. Focus in your mind what the truth is, and what is not.Have scriptures memorized in your head to fight the lies of satan.Like Jesus did in the forest during the 40 day fast. Stay focused on God's word and what it says. The devil will try to trick you into believing in a lie, and this will effect your faith if you listen to him and believe him over God. Be like a bulldog that latchs onto something so hard that you need a crow bar to pry him off.


Good instruction. 

Forest?  I thought it was the desert. 


BULLDOG FAITH!! Jesus said in many of the answered prayers, "let it be done, according to "your" faith." The bible also says, faith without works is dead. Its a sowing and reaping thing, but you have the promise, that "even as He is, so are we in this world". Jesus didn't come out swinging(ministry), but after putting in alot of time and hard work, He tore the devil a new #$$h*le   Work is a gift from God the bible says, but the devil will try to trick you in a number of ways, one "oh work sucks" two, "you should be working to collect things, and show people how strong you are". The Christian, walk and work is about reaching the lost and edifying the church, not about things that fill a house that sit there and don't do a thing. Jesus said invest in the kingdom of heaven where neither moths nor rust can reach.


One of my ex-pastors who I'm still very good friends with he and his wife told me I had "bulldog faith".  He said "you just don't let go until you understand it!"

The whole goal of the devil is to confuse and distract and get us more concerned what other people think.  He want to get us to the point of doing nothing, due to fear.

I desire to see people set free from bondage.  The devil is lying to the world with people like John Edwards and people are flocking to him to hear a word from a dead loved one. 

How much more does a living Jesus have to say?  But a great many in the church is telling Him to be quiet.  It's not allowed!


[And for this reason I remind you to kindle afresh through the laying on of my hands. For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.] 2 Tim 1:6+7

Thank you Sunstone.