"I agree that someone will understand it, though not always perfectly. "
I highly disagree with that. What do you think an interpreter does..LOL. he understands PERFECTLY.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10, 12 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears
now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part,; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
"So the best guide is to see the fruit that comes from the giving of such an interpretation"
No, the bible isn't silent at all. You heard them as if they spoke your language, though they might not be. There is no mystery in tongues, its quite clearly explained in the bible.
Lets compare:
Acts 2:4-12
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.
7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
8 "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?
9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabs--we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God."
12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, "What does this mean?"
For starters, there were about 120 disciples (Act 1:15) and they were all speaking in tongues. Different disciples speaking in different known languages that were understood by the Jews who were there. No interpreter required, because the gift of interpretation is a spiritual gift that none of those not-yet-repented Jews would have had yet.
and 1 Corinthians 14:2,4
2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
Theres your mysteries. The person is speaking not to men but to God. No-one understands. This is not the same human language that was understood without the need of an interpreter.
References to more than one kind of tongue (note plurals):
1 Corinthians 12:7,10
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good
10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
And 1 Corinthians 13:1
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
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"You have not given me any response to this by way or argument"
LOL, because the text doesn't say that. If you said, well here it says jesus was a murder and pointed to a section of text, I'd say the same thing. There is no need to reply to something the text clearly doesn't say.
I pointed out 1 Corinthians 13:1 last time and now here you say that the text doesnt say that. Well here is 1 Corinthians 13:1 and 12:7-10. Wheres your scripture? If it doesnt say that you didnt care to enlighten me on what it DID say.
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"You might find it helpful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater on accounts of gifts in tongues. "
I dont, but someone that doesn't have the gift, or has preverted it, I'm not going to allow them to show me how to use it, because its wrong.
The account I cited was totally consistent with Acts 2. A Jew was converted thanks to that tongue being spoken. That was not a perversion or an absence of the gift of tongues.
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"they are Christians and if its of God I will not be so quick to criticize any gift of the Spirit that will do that."
God used the greatest evil event in the world to save us (Christ's death) I'm sure he could use the perversion of a gift to show people his message, that doesn't make that act right.
1 Corinthians 12:1-3
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.
2 You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led.
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
Whatever abuses there were in Azusa Street, there was evidence that it was of God (see my previous Azusa Street example). We are talking about the GIFT being valid, not their DOCTRINE. There is a difference. One can preach the wrong doctrine and yet clearly have a teaching gift. It doesnt invalidate the gift, but it misrepresents it.
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"That you off-handedly make such a remark to a fellow brother in Christ when I have used scripture as the basis for what I believe is simply abrasive. "
That's the problem, you're not using scripture. You're using YOUR WORDS. You said yourself it was silent on the matter, now you're saying its not. I think you are twisting things this way and that to make your OWN IDEAS valid without looking in the bible first.
I merely forgot about that verse that I didnt cite it first doesnt mean I am twisting scripture (though it may appear so). There are enough verses to keep track of without forgetting the verse behind one thought in my head.
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"But that he did walk in faith before fear took over was a valid miracle"
1. it was by God's power alone he walked on water, Peter's faith was already gone he doubted
2. Fear isn't present where the spirit of God is, that's biblical.
Wheres your scripture? Dont keep saying its biblical when you yourself do not take the trouble to cite scripture yourself. You havent quoted scripture very much in your responses even though you tell me to use scripture for mine. Lead by example if youre going to exhort me to do something.
"lets not make light of the fact that theres a real christian guy behind these posts."
i don't I can say you've got an idea wrong, and the problem might be is you take it personal. If you're wrong correct it and move on, if you're not talk to God about it. I have not insulted you that I know of, I am just correcting a teaching of yours that is wrong according to the bible.
Yes, I am sensitive. The main thrust of your responses is that its not biblical, that I am elevating experience above scripture and that I havent used scripture but my own words. The problem is, I have used scripture, I use experience to show the true standard in the word of God is confirmed by todays accounts and not the other way around, and in saying I am not using scripture you yourself have not seen fit to lead by example.
The thing is God has shown me much on this issue and I believe it. Its different to your stance. I can see where people may build a case for your argument because I once took something similar, and now I see where I have built mine, on the word of God. I think you would agree, the Bible contains the word of God and the word of God is infallible.
But when it comes to interpretation thats where the difficulty comes in. When God began to show me more in this area of tongues I took a step in faith based on it and the gift was given. The fruit of it was a renewed desire to praise God and follow his Word. I am not more spiritual, more holy or anything else.
On a side note, may I ask whether you have this gift? And what you mean if you say that you do? Just curious.
Blessings,