Obedience to the word of God is NOT optional -if we persist in disobedience we are not saved

[PapaZoom]

i don't disagree with the scripture . but i'm not sure why people get the scalpel out and dissect between the gospel and obedience to it .. its christ that saved for sure .. and he tells us HOW to be saved .
if we refuse to do as he says .. we fool ourselves if we think we will be are or are being saved .

What exactly is your thoughts on obedience to the gospel? I'm not clear on what you mean.

 

[Si_monfaith]

i asked before , did i miss the reply ?

are you a naturist ? you seem to gravitate back to that (not very good analogy ) like you have an agenda.

I am a new creation only becz Jesus loved me more than Himself by dying for me & has set me free from kge that brought all curses & death into mankind.

Have you accepted his love by accepting the freedom which he earned by his death?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Grace is impossible to understand without the spirits enlightenment. You have to know in your heart Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness( rom10:4) He paid the price of all your sin, no condemnation.
In that knowledge sin shall not be your master( rom6:14)
It is true that through knowledge of the law lust is manifest in us.
However, it is the legally enforcing law that brings condemnation being spoken of in romans ch7. The power of sin is in sins power to condemn through a law of righteousness. Remove sins power to condemn and you have the way to see sin overcome in your life.
However, those who do not understand Paul's message claim you then preach a licence to sin

 

[Dave-W]

Have you accepted his love by accepting the freedom which he earned by his death?

What kind of freedom? THe kind that says I can marry and divorce 4 women for no good reason and then marry #5 because she was the "one God wanted for me from the start?"

Freedom to worship any which way I want, like Cain or Nadab and Abihu?

 

[stuart lawrence]

What kind of freedom? THe kind that says I can marry and divorce 4 women for no good reason and then marry #5 because she was the "one God wanted for me from the start?"

Freedom to worship any which way I want, like Cain or Nadab and Abihu?

I know many on the internet believe they have superior knowledge to the average minister in the pulpit, however.
One of the greatest tradgedies in christendom is few ministers preach the TWO part covenant. The law being written on the converts mind and placed on their heart makes it IMPOSSIBLE for a person to view freedom in Christ as an excuse to divorce four women for no good reason and marry five

 

[Si_monfaith]

What kind of freedom? THe kind that says I can marry and divorce 4 women for no good reason and then marry #5 because she was the "one God wanted for me from the start?"

Freedom to worship any which way I want, like Cain or Nadab and Abihu?

Do you want to be driven by the law & not by the love of Christ?

There are curses under the law -gala3:13.

 

[Dave-W]

The law being written on the converts mind and placed on their heart makes it IMPOSSIBLE for a person to view freedom in Christ as an excuse to divorce four women for no good reason and marry five

The situation was this: the wife had recently married #5 - and it was the minister in the pulpit. She directed the choir. The lead tenor in that choir was hubby #4.

Need I go on?

 

[Dave-W]

Do you want to be driven by the law & not by the love of Christ?

The "Love of Christ" is NOT "sloppy agape." It is a covenant love and all covenants have requirements.

Even the Abrahamic covenant which was entirely one sided (God's side) had this stipulation: "Walk before Me, and be blameless." Gen 17.1

 

[Si_monfaith]

The "Love of Christ" is NOT "sloppy agape." It is a covenant love and all covenants have requirements.

Even the Abrahamic covenant which was entirely one sided (God's side) had this stipulation: "Walk before Me, and be blameless." Gen 17.1

Are we under grace or law covenant?

If requirement is a condition to be saved or blessed it is no more grace but law.

Fulfilling requirements while not accepting Christ's deliverance from kge (knowledge of good &evil which brought all curses & death to mankind) makes no sense.

 

[Dave-W]

We are under the New Covenant which is offered to us by God's grace and is accessed by faith.

And here is the description of the New Covenant:

Jer 31.31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Beyond that, to obey this Gospel, one must REPENT. That means turn from our own ways and understandings to follow HIS ways. Change of mind and change of lifestyle. We walk in obedience.

 

[Si_monfaith]

We are under the New Covenant which is offered to us by God's grace and is accessed by faith.

And here is the description of the New Covenat:

Jer 31.31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

That is not the conditional law of moses but grace that is written as conditional law is destroyed-ephes2:15.

Under grace sin is not accounted -roma5:13.

I am yet to hear on the freedom from kge.

 

[Dave-W]

Under grace sin is not accounted -roma5:13.

So you are saying we can just "go on sinning?"

I am with Paul on this one: NO WAY! May it never be!

 

[Si_monfaith]

So you are saying we can just "go on sinning?"

I am with Paul on this one: NO WAY! May it never be!

By destroying law by His death (roma7:4) Jesus destroyed sin as sin dead when law is no more (roma7:8).

Where is the principle of sin? It is dead.

 

[Dave-W]

By destroying law by His death (roma7:4) Jesus destroyed sin as sin dead when law is no more (roma7:8).
Where is the principle of sin? It is dead.

Then why did the apostle John writing in the late 90s ad say this?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

I submit your definition of sin is not broad enough.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Then why did the apostle John writing in the late 90s ad say this?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

I submit your definition of sin is not broad enough.

Mankind got curses & death not becz of nakedness but becz of kge.

Without deliverance from kge no deliverance from curses & death.

John was writing to new converts who did not have both the ot & nt bible. Even the apostles were in the process of receiving revelation & writing epistles one after the other.

 

[stuart lawrence]

So you are saying we can just "go on sinning?"

I am with Paul on this one: NO WAY! May it never be!

You don't want to go on sinning for you have been born again. The law is in your heart.
If Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness (rom10:4) he MUST have died for all your sins, past, present and future, for sin is the transgression of the law(1john3:4) no way around that!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Paul states the christian has a righteousness before God apart from observing the law ( rom3:20 gal2:21 phil3:9 etc)
Sin is transgression of the law.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Paul states the christian has a righteousness before God apart from observing the law ( rom3:20 gal2:21 phil3:9 etc)
Sin is transgression of the law.

Jesus alone is our righteousness before God.

No law means no transgression possible (rom4:15) which means no act could amount to transgression.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jesus alone is our righteousness before God.

No law means no transgression possible (rom4:15) which means no act could amount to transgression.

I agree with so much of what you write. Can I put something to you?
Law exists, it has not gone away. Thou shalt not steal, kill, commit adultery, covet etc stand. These laws have been written on the Christians mind and placed on their hearts, so the christian in their heart wants to obey them. What has been removed I a law of righteousness for Christ died for our sins. He is our sole righteousness before the father. Therefore the law cannot condemn the christian for Christ died to pay the penalty of our imperfections concerning the law.( our sins)
It is no longer a law written on tablets of stone( an external law) but a law written on tablets of human hearts 2cor3:3( an internal law)
What is in your heart, you in your heart want to obey( you have been born again) therefore Christ paid the penalty of the sins of those who have been born again of the spirit, those who in their hearts want to obey his father

 

[Si_monfaith]

I agree with so much of what you write. Can I put something to you?
Law exists, it has not gone away. Thou shalt not steal, kill, commit adultery, covet etc stand. These laws have been written on the Christians mind and placed on their hearts, so the christian in their heart wants to obey them. What has been removed I a law of righteousness for Christ died for our sins. He is our sole righteousness before the father. Therefore the law cannot condemn the christian for Christ died to pay the penalty of our imperfections concerning the law.( our sins)
It is no longer a law written on tablets of stone( an external law) but a law written on tablets of human hearts 2cor3:3( an internal law)
What is in your heart, you in your heart want to obey( you have been born again) therefore Christ paid the penalty of the sins of those who have been born again of the spirit, those who in their hearts want to obey his father

We have been set free from themoral law (rom7:4) totally. Now that which is written in our heart is the principle (interchageably called as law) of grace.

Now we could do the things that we desire, as the hindering (rom7:17) sin is dead (rom7:8). Similarly, we cannot be forced by sin to do what we do not desire. Similarly we have no knowledge what sin is (rom3:20), as by His love, Jesus set us free from law.