Robert Pate,
Hello RP,
I think we need to use extreme caution to discuss the place of the law in the Christian life.
[
Under the New Covenant the Old Covenant of law and religion was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.]
The OLd Covenant was done away with.We are no longer to sacrice animals, observe ceremonial feast days,food laws.
Does that mean the 10 commandments are "abolished"?
Which commandment are you free to break?
Can you take the lord's name in vain? worship other gods?
Can you murder your neighbor?
Paul teaches us differently;
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Paul had no trouble using the 10 commandments to describe how we love our neighbor.
[The reason that it was abolished was because it was no longer applicable for New Testament Christians.]
No this is not correct.
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
[Paul wrote,
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.]
Paul is quoting from Deut 30,which you have ignored.
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Paul uses this to point to Christ Jesus as our Covenant head and law keeper. He was the law giver, and He kept the law perfectly on behalf of His elect people.
We are saved by law keeping! Not our trying to keep it,[we cannot], but by the perfect law keeping of our Lord. That is what provides us with righteousness. CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW...FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
THE LAW POINTS TO CHRIST AS A SCHOOLMASTER TOOK CHILDREN TO SCHOOL. GAL3:24
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[
Many Christians believe that the law is their teacher and their guide and that they should live by laws, rules and religion. ]
Christians are law keepers...many have preached, the law is LOVES eyes.
[This is exactly what the Pharisees thought. ]
They taught we could keep the law in order to be saved which was false.
[But the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is our teacher and our guide and not the law, John 16:13.]
Any truth we welcome comes by way of the Spirit. You are using jn16:13 out of context which I will show when I start the thread on Apostolic uniqueness.That verse was given directly to the Apostles.
[When God abolished the written law, he wrote the spiritual law on the hearts and minds of his people, Hebrews 8:10. The spiritual law is very different from the written law.]
No, it is identical. The change is in the new heart, not in the law.
In the OT the law was mediated by Moses, in the NT. it is mediated by Jesus.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[
The written law demands perfection or death. The spiritual law is an urging or prompting to do what is right. There is no condemnation for those that violate the spiritual law, Romans 8:1.]
We are not free to violate the law....real believers are not condemned because Jesus has paid for their sins.Those who sin will be disciplined by God.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[Under the New Covenant God's people don't live by rules, laws or religion.]
A complete falsehood, we are not antinomian...[ie, against law]
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Robert, take some time to consider what is being offered here.
I had some of the same ideas you have expressed.
They are a combination of true ideas, but wrong conclusions.
feel free to offer any questions, or if you feel i am in error, offer correction