Obedience Motivated by Love, Not Law

RobertPate

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2007
944
236
✟44,551.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Galatians 5

13 For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but serve one another through love. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Right. To be subject to the law is to be subject to sin, Romans 7:8. The law promotes sin. Paul said, The commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death" Romans 7:10.

To walk in the Spirit is to walk in the Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. No laws, rules or religion needed
 
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The law demands perfection, Genesis 17:1. Anything less than perfection is sin, Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. In the light of that, I am a sinner, a saved sinner. Paul also referred to himself as "The chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Do I deliberately sin? I try not to. There are terrible consequences to sin. Not only that, I don't want to disgrace my heavenly father.
When you sin you transgress the law.
Christians are under law to Christ.
 
Upvote 0

RobertPate

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2007
944
236
✟44,551.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
When you sin you transgress the law.
Christians are under law to Christ.
Spiritually speaking, I cannot sin. "For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. Jesus has nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
How does this comment relate to Paul's statement that if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the Law ??

Carl,
I have found that the term law is used in several ways.

The literal law, Moral, Ceremonial, Judicial
The law of sin and death
The law as a principle
The law as an object of delight
The law as a Schoolmaster
The things contained in the law.

In Gal. 5...he is correcting the Galatian heresy that gentiles needed to seek to be justified by doing the works of the law. That is not a possibility.
So overall he is speaking about carnal, fleshly people, seeking to put themselves under a principle of law, rather than knowing the freedom we have by the Spirit, In Christ.

from gal1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
gal.2:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
The liberty is being free from the laws penalty, we are now free to serve and obey in newness of life.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified

Now here he contrasts the two principles;law,or grace
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Does this help?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Spiritually speaking, I cannot sin. "For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. Jesus has nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14.
Robert,
This is way off.
There is law, and you as a christian still sin everyday.
5._____ The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
( Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8, 10-12; James 2:10, 11; Matthew 5:17-19; Romans 3:31 )
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Chapter 19: Of the Law of God
1._____ God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
( Genesis 1:27; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:10, 12 )
2._____ The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
( Romans 2:14, 15; Deuteronomy 10:4 )

3._____ Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties, all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.
( Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Colossians 2:14, 16, 17; Ephesians 2:14, 16 )

4._____ To them also he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution; their general equity only being of moral use.
( 1 Corinthians 9:8-10 )

5._____ The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
( Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8, 10-12; James 2:10, 11; Matthew 5:17-19; Romans 3:31 )

6._____ Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.
( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )

7._____ Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it, the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done.
( Galatians 3:21; Ezekiel 36:27 )
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,742
10,043
78
Auckland
✟382,226.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Carl,
I have found that the term law is used in several ways.

The literal law, Moral, Ceremonial, Judicial
The law of sin and death
The law as a principle
The law as an object of delight
The law as a Schoolmaster
The things contained in the law.

In Gal. 5...he is correcting the Galatian heresy that gentiles needed to seek to be justified by doing the works of the law. That is not a possibility.
So overall he is speaking about carnal, fleshly people, seeking to put themselves under a principle of law, rather than knowing the freedom we have by the Spirit, In Christ.

from gal1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
gal.2:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
The liberty is being free from the laws penalty, we are now free to serve and obey in newness of life.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified

Now here he contrasts the two principles;law,or grace
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Does this help?

So what do you think Gal 5:18 is saying ???
 
Upvote 0

RobertPate

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2007
944
236
✟44,551.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Chapter 19: Of the Law of God
1._____ God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
( Genesis 1:27; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:10, 12 )
2._____ The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
( Romans 2:14, 15; Deuteronomy 10:4 )

3._____ Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties, all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.
( Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Colossians 2:14, 16, 17; Ephesians 2:14, 16 )

4._____ To them also he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution; their general equity only being of moral use.
( 1 Corinthians 9:8-10 )

5._____ The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
( Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8, 10-12; James 2:10, 11; Matthew 5:17-19; Romans 3:31 )

6._____ Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.
( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )

7._____ Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it, the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done.
( Galatians 3:21; Ezekiel 36:27 )

There are two separate aspects to the Christian life. There is the spiritual and there is the physical. These two aspects cannot be confused, to do so is heresy.

Spiritually, God sees his people as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and all sin has been atoned for.

Physically, The Christian is still here on the earth in his unredeemed Adamic body, Romans 8:23. He is a sinner. Paul referred to himself as, "The chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Physically, he is under the law and subject to the law because he is a sinner. But spiritually he is perfect and complete in Christ.

Christians are called to live in the Spirit, because the physical was crucified with Christ, Romans 6:8. The physical nature of man cannot be re-habilitated by the works of the law. Paul said, "Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20.

This means that works, laws and religion serve no purpose in the Christians life. Paul said that we should be "Dead to the law and alive to Christ" Romans 6:8. To be dead to the law is to be dead to sin. It is the law that promotes sin, Romans 7:8.
 
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So what do you think Gal 5:18 is saying ???
We are set free in Christ.
We do not seek to gain heaven by law keeping.
Jesus kept it for our justification.
We are to obey the law in order to worship and serve God properly, Sin debt paid for service debt due.Love to God, Love to neighbor.
We are on the right side of the law now.
We are free or at liberty to serve, not sin.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,742
10,043
78
Auckland
✟382,226.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We are set free in Christ.
We do not seek to gain heaven by law keeping.
Jesus kept it for our justification.
We are to obey the law in order to worship and serve God properly, Sin debt paid for service debt due.Love to God, Love to neighbor.
We are on the right side of the law now.
We are free or at liberty to serve, not sin.


Thanks for your response.

That is pretty close to what I understand with one exception.

We are exhorted to walk in the Spirit and not in the deeds of the flesh.

What do you think walking in the Spirit means ?

This is a matter that has arisen on CF again and again - the function of the Holy Spirit in Christian life.

Beyond convicting the world of sin, righteous and judgement, little is said about HIM in US.

It worries me that few seem to speak of a conversational relationship with God, yet it would seem to me that this is both precious and fundamental and biblical and should be normative.

However praying without ceasing as in having a heart constantly towards Him ever ready to respond to His prompting doesn't get much press.

Maybe this comes from the fear of hearing the wrong voices and so there is an embargo on hearing anything.

I wonder if the cessationists have 'cast a spell' over the Christian community demanding that His work in us stopped after the bible was compiled so we now have the Father Son and Book instead of a living relationship with Him.

My testimony here
Jesus's Ministry has many accounts of being led by Him to walk in the Spirit and partner with Him in His work.

Yet many adamantly dismiss such events happening so I am meant to accept the label of liar and shut up.

Well if I was to comply I would be denying Him in me.

I believe I am here to share about walking with Him and partnering in His purpose which leads to an exciting and challenging life well lived but seemingly less walked.

I have waited 40 years before sharing and have no public profile or professional ministry.

I simply wish to celebrate Him in us and the fulfilling life that this leads to.

Walking in the Spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David's Harp
Upvote 0

RobertPate

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2007
944
236
✟44,551.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
We are set free in Christ.
We do not seek to gain heaven by law keeping.
Jesus kept it for our justification.
We are to obey the law in order to worship and serve God properly, Sin debt paid for service debt due.Love to God, Love to neighbor.
We are on the right side of the law now.
We are free or at liberty to serve, not sin.
Your conclusion is very far away from the truth.
Your statement is antinomian error.
It can be fixed
I am assuming that your post was directed to me.

I like Paul am a New Covenant Christian. Under the New Covenant God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If we are perfect and complete in Christ, then what good is the law?
 
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Who is this post referring to ?
Robert Pate
Thanks for your response.

That is pretty close to what I understand with one exception.

We are exhorted to walk in the Spirit and not in the deeds of the flesh.

What do you think walking in the Spirit means ?

This is a matter that has arisen on CF again and again - the function of the Holy Spirit in Christian life.

Beyond convicting the world of sin, righteous and judgement, little is said about HIM in US.

It worries me that few seem to speak of a conversational relationship with God, yet it would seem to me that this is both precious and fundamental and biblical and should be normative.

However praying without ceasing as in having a heart constantly towards Him ever ready to respond to His prompting doesn't get much press.

Maybe this comes from the fear of hearing the wrong voices and so there is an embargo on hearing anything.

I wonder if the cessationists have 'cast a spell' over the Christian community demanding that His work in us stopped after the bible was compiled so we now have the Father Son and Book instead of a living relationship with Him.

My testimony here
Jesus's Ministry has many accounts of being led by Him to walk in the Spirit and partner with Him in His work.

Yet many adamantly dismiss such events happening so I am meant to accept the label of liar and shut up.

Well if I was to comply I would be denying Him in me.

I believe I am here to share about walking with Him and partnering in His purpose which leads to an exciting and challenging life well lived but seemingly less walked.

I have waited 40 years before sharing and have no public profile or professional ministry.

I simply wish to celebrate Him in us and the fulfilling life that this leads to.

Walking in the Spirit.
Carl,
In Romans8:6 we read
To be carnally minded is death,to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
8:9 declares if the person does not have the Spirit he is none of His.
We are told the reason is the Spirit leads believers to mortify. Ie, deprive sin of its power.
Rom8.:11-14
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Carl Emerson
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I am assuming that your post was directed to me.

I like Paul am a New Covenant Christian. Under the New Covenant God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If we are perfect and complete in Christ, then what good is the law?
The post was to you.
In Rom7 Paul taught that he delights in the law of God.
Romans 7:25 with my mind I serve the law of God
He does not claim the law is useless for Christians .
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

RobertPate

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2007
944
236
✟44,551.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
The post was to you.
In Rom7 Paul taught that he delights in the law of God.

The inner man is the spiritual man, Romans 7:22. But Paul is not 100% spiritual. He is still a wretched sinner, Romans 7:24, that is trapped in his Adamic body. "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.
 
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The inner man is the spiritual man, Romans 7:22. But Paul is not 100% spiritual. He is still a wretched sinner, Romans 7:24, that is trapped in his Adamic body. "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.
Paul was not a gnostic but a Christian.
He did not divide himself.., .
1thess 5:23
 
Upvote 0

ICONO'CLAST

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2005
1,902
781
new york
✟93,319.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The inner man is the spiritual man, Romans 7:22. But Paul is not 100% spiritual. He is still a wretched sinner, Romans 7:24, that is trapped in his Adamic body. "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.
We are not two different people. 1thess 5:23
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RobertPate

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2007
944
236
✟44,551.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
We are not two different people. 1thess 5:23
Right. We are one person with two different natures.
"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: John Caldwell
Upvote 0