Obamacare and Smoking

[iluvatar5150]

So is Obama going to pay an extra $4k/year from now on for his coverage out of his own pocket? I think not...

1.) Does he still smoke?
2.) That's up to the terms of his insurance provider, isn't it?

It's easy to make these kinds of rules when you know they won't apply to you...

I don't know if I've ever been on a plan that didn't charge smokers more.

-Dan.

 

[[serious]]

1.) Does he still smoke?
2.) That's up to the terms of his insurance provider, isn't it?



I don't know if I've ever been on a plan that didn't charge smokers more.

-Dan.

Yeah, but now it's obama's fault that reality still exists.

It's like when he visited areas ravage by hurricane sandy. Sure, it was like that when he got there, but since we was now present, it became his fault.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

1.) Does he still smoke?
2.) That's up to the terms of his insurance provider, isn't it?



I don't know if I've ever been on a plan that didn't charge smokers more.

-Dan.

They all charge smokers more...but not to the tune of 50% more.

 

[[serious]]

They all charge smokers more...but not to the tune of 50% more.

life insurance rates appear to about double from a quick google search. a little fix to the search finds a source citing up to 41% more for health insurance for smokers currently.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

If we are going to raise health premiums on smokers, why don't we also nail obese people? Might as well, since Obama is also nailing tanning booths. What's next, driving? Driving a car is just too dangerous! Not to mention all those green house emissions!

 

[Merope]

If we are going to raise health premiums on smokers, why don't we also nail obese people? Might as well, since Obama is also nailing tanning booths. What's next, driving? Driving a car is just too dangerous! Not to mention all those green house emissions!

A fine idea. Fat is just a lifestyle choice as is tanning and driving. While we're at it: Gun owners should be charged more since you're 41 times more likely to injure yourself with your own gun as opposed to being injured or killed by someone else's gun.

 

[iluvatar5150]

If we are going to raise health premiums on smokers, why don't we also nail obese people? Might as well, since Obama is also nailing tanning booths. What's next, driving? Driving a car is just too dangerous! Not to mention all those green house emissions!

Many health plans have incentives for going to a gym regularly, so in a sense, fat people who don't exercise are penalized.

-Dan.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Many health plans have incentives for going to a gym regularly, so in a sense, fat people who don't exercise are penalized.

-Dan.

Getting hit with higher rates vs. not getting a discount aren't quite the same.

For some reason, there's a social stigma pertaining to calling out fat people that doesn't seem to exist in terms of calling out smokers.

Example: If you walked outside and lit up, it wouldn't be odd for someone to say "What are you doing? That'll kill you, you should stop smoking".

However, if I did the same thing to a fat person walking down the street eating an ice cream cone, it'd be considered "insensitive"

 

[[serious]]

If we are going to raise health premiums on smokers, why don't we also nail obese people? Might as well, since Obama is also nailing tanning booths. What's next, driving? Driving a car is just too dangerous! Not to mention all those green house emissions!

Smoking is 100% pure lifestyle choice. No upside whatsoever.

 

[[serious]]

Getting hit with higher rates vs. not getting a discount aren't quite the same.

For some reason, there's a social stigma pertaining to calling out fat people that doesn't seem to exist in terms of calling out smokers.

Example: If you walked outside and lit up, it wouldn't be odd for someone to say "What are you doing? That'll kill you, you should stop smoking".

However, if I did the same thing to a fat person walking down the street eating an ice cream cone, it'd be considered "insensitive"

A good percent of fat people are fat because they ultimately make choices that make them fat. There are legitimate medical reasons that people carry around extra pounds too. If someone has an underactive thyroid, that's a medical condition. There is no equivalent with smoking.

 

[keith99]

Anyone eating bacon should be taxed more. You know this stuff ain't good for ya!

Dang.

Thems fightin words.

If they seriously try to do this I'm finally going to need to buy a gun!

That or look into some really nasty poisons.

Don't mess with my bacon.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

A good percent of fat people are fat because they ultimately make choices that make them fat. There are legitimate medical reasons that people carry around extra pounds too. If someone has an underactive thyroid, that's a medical condition. There is no equivalent with smoking.

I know there's some rare medical conditions that can cause it...but let's pretend for the sake of argument we're talking about 2 family members, one who smokes, and the other who eats way too much...

It's socially acceptable to chastise the smoker, the same can't be said about the over-eater.

That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Dang.

Thems fightin words.

If they seriously try to do this I'm finally going to need to buy a gun!

That or look into some really nasty poisons.

Don't mess with my bacon.

Yes, my point is the fallacy of trying to influence behavior through federal regulation. Didn't they learn anything with prohibition?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Getting hit with higher rates vs. not getting a discount aren't quite the same.

Mathematically, it's identical. There may be some difference in the ability of each to effect change in behavior (i.e. people react differently to incentives that are structure in different ways), but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

For some reason, there's a social stigma pertaining to calling out fat people that doesn't seem to exist in terms of calling out smokers.

Well, to be fair - there are a lot of factors that can be at play in a person's being fat, some of which are outside the person's control. Yes, there are general habits people ought to follow, but two people can have the same diet and exercise regimen and wind up with wildly different results. In order to fairly call someone out for bad behavior, you need a lot more context to do so about their weight than you would if they were smoking.

Example: If you walked outside and lit up, it wouldn't be odd for someone to say "What are you doing? That'll kill you, you should stop smoking".

However, if I did the same thing to a fat person walking down the street eating an ice cream cone, it'd be considered "insensitive"

It's socially acceptable to chastise the smoker, the same can't be said about the over-eater.

Maybe this is a regional thing, but I don't really find this to be the case. Are we talking about addressing strangers or addressing people we know? Because around here, eating fatty food is just as likely to garner comments as is smoking. If it's someone you know, comments may be made. If it's someone you don't know, comments won't be made. Even up here in enlightened New England, walking up to a big guy and calling him fat is a good way to get your butt kicked.

-Dan.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Maybe this is a regional thing, but I don't really find this to be the case. Are we talking about addressing strangers or addressing people we know? Because around here, eating fatty food is just as likely to garner comments as is smoking. If it's someone you know, comments may be made. If it's someone you don't know, comments won't be made.

-Dan.

Perhaps it could be a regional thing...not sure.

I'm talking about either strangers or people you know.

Let's pretend for a moment you're in a work environment. If a smoker was walking up a flight of stairs, got winded, and a co-worker said "What's the matter, those smokes catching up with ya? ", it's very unlikely that they would get in any trouble. However, if a fat person was walking up that same flight of stairs, got winded, and a co-worker said "What's the matter, those donuts catching up with ya? "...they'd more than likely be sitting in HR's office watching a sensitivity training video and being briefed on the company's anti-harassment policy.

Even up here in enlightened New England, walking up to a big guy and calling him fat is a good way to get your butt kicked.

Not really, you just gotta run faster than the fat guy

 

[[serious]]

Yes, my point is the fallacy of trying to influence behavior through federal regulation. Didn't they learn anything with prohibition?

They did not attempt to flat out ban cigarettes
They have been putting out public health info
They have been increasing the cost of them to provide a further financial disincentive.
Smoking rates have been about cut in half since the 60s

Apparently they have learned their lesson

 

[Merope]

They did not attempt to flat out ban cigarettes
They have been putting out public health info
They have been increasing the cost of them to provide a further financial disincentive.
Smoking rates have been about cut in half since the 60s

Apparently they have learned their lesson

I heard a curious statistic on the radio the other day. Apparently the number of young women who start smoking is outpacing the number of young men who start smoking for the first time in US history. Not surprisingly: lung cancer rates in women are going up faster than men. It sounds to me like some of the message is being ignored.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I heard a curious statistic on the radio the other day. Apparently the number of young women who start smoking is outpacing the number of young men who start smoking for the first time in US history. Not surprisingly: lung cancer rates in women are going up faster than men. It sounds to me like some of the message is being ignored.

Or that men are just listening to it more.

-Dan.

 

[variant]

How much more should they be charged?

At a rate that makes up for the increased risk.

 

[[serious]]

I heard a curious statistic on the radio the other day. Apparently the number of young women who start smoking is outpacing the number of young men who start smoking for the first time in US history. Not surprisingly: lung cancer rates in women are going up faster than men. It sounds to me like some of the message is being ignored.

CDC - Lung Cancer Trends

Lung cancer rates are not increasing.